The earliest defining moment of DS9 - Page 2

USS Kongo · December 9 2012, 10:21 PM

^ Yeah, I wholly agree. Duet was the first inkling I had that Deep Space Nine was going to be something special. That episode was simply extraordinary.

Sean

M · December 10 2012, 12:01 AM

Bumbles861 wrote:

teacake wrote:

SISKO: What is the point of bringing me back again to this?
JAKE: We do not bring you here.
JENNIFER: You bring us here.
TACTICAL: You exist here.
SISKO: Then give me the power to lead you somewhere else. Anywhere else.
OPAKA: We cannot give you what you deny yourself. Look for solutions from within, Commander.
SISKO: I was ready to die with her.
TACTICAL: Die? What is this?
JENNIFER: The termination of their linear existence.
(and she puts her hand on his cheek)
TACTICAL: We've got to go now, sir.
SISKO 2: Damn it, we just can't leave her here. Oh, no!
SISKO: I never left this ship.
JENNIFER: You exist here.
SISKO: I exist here. I don't know if you can understand. I see her like this every time I close my eyes. In the darkness, in the blink of an eye, I see her like this.
JENNIFER: None of your past experiences helped prepare you for this consequence.
SISKO: And I have never figured out how to live without her.
JENNIFER: So you choose to exist here. It is not linear.
SISKO: No. It's not linear.

This to me is the first defining moment of DS9

Every character in the show struggles with where they choose to exist emotionally and psychologically and how this prevents him from moving forward in life. Some come to this understanding (Bashir, Rom.. just to name two) and walk out of how they defined themselves or allowed others to define them into a new way to exist that is more of a choice rather than a reaction. Some are unable to do this and instead their being stuck psychologically becomes a cancer that consumes them (Kai Winn).

Bajor itself struggles with whether it defines itself as by the Occupation or whether they will embrace their future in the Federation and take on a newer and forward looking identity. They have to learn like Sisko that you don't lose the part of yourself that brought you so much pain when you walk into your future, you take it with you but it no longer defines you to your detriment.

Eloquently said - and I wholeheartedly agree.

As do I. Without a doubt my favourite scene from a brilliant pilot. For me, the magic was there right from the start. It's the characters, it's the tone, it's the setting – everything in the pilot made clear that this wasn't the Trek we were used to. I will forever love this series, even the first two seasons often dismissed by some fans.

E-DUB · December 10 2012, 01:45 AM

While there were good episodes earlier and good (heck, great) moments earlier, the defining moment had to be the destruction of the Odyssey.

47 · December 10 2012, 11:09 AM

1. The musical theme was completely different from TOS and TNG. If you remember, the theme of TNG was reminiscent of TOS.

2. It was on a space station. Not on the Enterprise, not on a starship. There would be no exploration in there. At least it would not be a show focusing on exploration or explorers.

So by the end of the credits of Emissary, it was already pretty obvious that this was not the usual Trek.

JediKnightButler · December 13 2012, 05:10 AM

I enjoyed the series but didn't get really excited about it until they brought in the Defiant and the Dominion at the beginning of S3. I was always quite fond of the Defiant and thought that it was the coolest of the Trek ships and it gave our characters the opportunity to have more adventures off the station in a real vessel and not just a runabout which IMHO always seemed kind of rinky-dinky to me.

BTW just thought of another interesting "parallel" to B5 (another one of my favorite series): Captain Sheridan gets a new ship too- the White Star.

JirinPanthosa · December 14 2012, 08:03 PM

The destruction of the Odyssey just seemed to me like a "Hey fans, we're NOT GONNA BE LIKE TNG". More a statement of what the show is not than what the show is.

JediKnightButler · December 20 2012, 07:31 PM

JirinPanthosa wrote:

The destruction of the Odyssey just seemed to me like a "Hey fans, we're NOT GONNA BE LIKE TNG". More a statement of what the show is not than what the show is.

Right. And it wasn't a reversible time anomaly or something like, say, "Cause & Effect" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" (though both were enjoyable eps in their own right nonetheless). I had the same feeling about later eps of DS9 like with Dominion War, as well as the new JJ Abrams Star Trek movie. The instant they destroyed Vulcan in that movie, I knew that we were in for some serious stuff and that they weren't going to pull any punches. At that point, it was made clear that nothing nor anybody is "safe" in the new series. I ALMOST thought that they were going to push a "reset button" at the end of the movie when they destroy the Narada and almost get sucked into the Black Hole but they didn't and for that I was thankful.

Paper Moon · December 20 2012, 11:31 PM

Ln X wrote:

For me it hast to be Duet, before this all the previous episodes strayed into well-trodden TNG territory or were too timid and didn't make bold leaps forwards.

Duet changed all that, for starters it focuses solely on two alien characters who drove this episode forwards, and TNG has NEVER done that before. Secondly there is a level of psychological and emotional insight that TNG only occasionally achieved. …

There are some seriously raw emotions, and the 'villain' of this episode, the disguised Marritza, you almost want to hear more of his brutal and frank opinions because the episode isn't biased towards him or Kira. It's a clash of opinions, of facts and of accounts, and it's allowed to happen and it's allowed to run its course. Finally cumulating in what I see is a major breakthrough for Kira's character; she finally differentiates between those Cardassians who committed all those terrible things against her people, and the ones who did not.

It's classic Roddenbury stuff…

For me Duet was when DS9 truly showed its potential; it started to really focus on the people, and move away from this planet-of-the-week, travelling-through-the-stars format which TOS and TNG were so heavily bound to.

Yeah, I definitely agree. teacake's moment from "Emissary" is a critical one, to be sure, but I feel that "Duet" provided a more focused definition, along the lines of, "Yes, this show will be about suffering and we are not going to shy away from discussing the ambiguities of sufferings and their causes." Kira's line, "No! It's not." at the end is probably the defining moment for me, actually. DS9 was about change (see Quark's last lines in the series), and that line sums it all up, right there.

(Also, teacake, I want to echo what others have said: your analysis of that scene from Emissary is very eloquently put indeed.

)

December 9 2012, 10:21 PM	#16
USS Kongo Fleet Captain	Re: The earliest defining moment of DS9 ^ Yeah, I wholly agree. Duet was the first inkling I had that Deep Space Nine was going to be something special. That episode was simply extraordinary. Sean __________________ MY DVD Review Site Like Ghost Stories? Read My Book!

December 10 2012, 01:45 AM	#18
E-DUB Commander	Re: The earliest defining moment of DS9 While there were good episodes earlier and good (heck, great) moments earlier, the defining moment had to be the destruction of the Odyssey.

December 10 2012, 11:09 AM	#19
47 Vice Admiral Location: Bumpy's Former Lair	Re: The earliest defining moment of DS9 1. The musical theme was completely different from TOS and TNG. If you remember, the theme of TNG was reminiscent of TOS. 2. It was on a space station. Not on the Enterprise, not on a starship. There would be no exploration in there. At least it would not be a show focusing on exploration or explorers. So by the end of the credits of Emissary, it was already pretty obvious that this was not the usual Trek. __________________ Star Trek: The Heads of Janus

December 13 2012, 05:10 AM	#20
JediKnightButler Captain Location: Indianapolis, Indiana	Re: The earliest defining moment of DS9 I enjoyed the series but didn't get really excited about it until they brought in the Defiant and the Dominion at the beginning of S3. I was always quite fond of the Defiant and thought that it was the coolest of the Trek ships and it gave our characters the opportunity to have more adventures off the station in a real vessel and not just a runabout which IMHO always seemed kind of rinky-dinky to me. BTW just thought of another interesting "parallel" to B5 (another one of my favorite series): Captain Sheridan gets a new ship too- the White Star. __________________ Do or do not. There is no try.

December 14 2012, 08:03 PM	#21
JirinPanthosa Captain	Re: The earliest defining moment of DS9 The destruction of the Odyssey just seemed to me like a "Hey fans, we're NOT GONNA BE LIKE TNG". More a statement of what the show is not than what the show is.

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