The Walking Dead Season 3

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Well, I guess we know where you're coming from.

[TREK_GOD_1]

RJDonner&Blitzen wrote:

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^^ Well, I guess we know where you're coming from.

Yeah, the position of recognizing a horny old man manipulating others for his own concerns, and voting himself moral leader of the pack.

He's just a less effective version of the Governor, but if he had the numbers/loyal followers, he would fit right in a Woodbury of his own--even if he did not collect zombie heads or keep zombie daughters.

[Morpheus 02]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Again, Dale was the Lets Stay United / Sake of Humanity resident bleeding heart, and he knew Jacqui--she was no stranger or newbie to the Atlanta group. He focused on Andrea because he had less than honorable intentions toward her, as his post-CDC behavior would prove. That's why he was so bug-eyed pissy when he detected her relationship with Shane--his would-be liberal fantasy girl had become the wannabe gunslinger with a taste for a brutal ex-cop/hayseed.

Wow -- what judgment of a fictional character!

I'm with those defending Dale.

And regards to him just ofcusing on Andre a-- excuse me, can you tell how often people talk down TWO (or if you actually cared about the CDC guy, THREE) at the same time??? It's certainly hard to talk ONE down, but THREE? Please....

You're also confusing the Andrea & Dale of the comics, witht he TV show. TV Dale sees Amy & Andrea almost like his daughters. Now, they weren't together too long, but even a couple of days can make the difference in getting to know someone, certainly with the dozen or so in the group, and people riding in different cars and having idfferent duties.

Him talking down Andrea would be not much different than if it were Lori or Carl in Andrea's place. No one would criticize Rick for focusing on his family first.

We honestly don't know squat about Jacqui. For all we know, she joined the group 2 days before Rick first encountered Glenn. She might have also been depressed/suicidal anyway making it much harder to talk her down. Andrea, when Amy was alive, certainly had plenty of


And regarding Dale and Shane -- i believe he knows that Shane is Rick's best friend & cop partner (maybe even knowing that the friendship was from childhood). And when he saw Shane aiming a gun at Rick -- sorry, but how can you NOT consider that a red flag?! If it were Carol or Lori who saw that, they'd be just as concerned about Andrea as well.


Oh, and here's what the actress who played Jacqui had to say about her character, from the official AMC website

Q: What did you learn about surviving an apocalypse from playing Jacqui?

A: You have to form new relationships. Even though she was a part of the group and cared about the group, she didn't have anybody to give her a sense of starting anew. There's research that people live longer when they have social relationships to keep that part of their hearts alive. I have this fantasy that Morgan came to rescue me and then he and I could raise his adorable son. That's the kind of thing that keeps you alive.

Q: What about Jacqui's choice to stay at the CDC? Do you think you could do what she did?

A: I would love to think that I would have that kind of core certainty, that sense of clarity about myself and my life, but I'm not sure that I would. I really considered it to be an honor, going out in a flame of glory like that. And the fact that it wasn't a bite. It had more to do with a larger philosophical consideration of quality of life. Are you really surviving if you can't live free?

Q: Does your whole life flash before your eyes when you're pretending to die?

A: Absolutely. I had to say goodbye to a lot of the people and things that I love about living, because I love life. I've tried to live it in many different ways. I think she felt she had very few choices in front of her. Maybe that is what she found to be unacceptable.

So for Jacqui's case...she didn't bond with anyone in the way Dale & Andrea did.


And one last thing -- the Walking Dead Wikia summarizes Jacqui, including these things:

When Andrea and Amy return with fish they had caught, Jacqui smiles and hi-fives Andrea in triumph. Jacqui joins in with the conversation about Dale's watch, she says "unless I've misread the signs, the world seems to have come to an end. At least hit a speed bump for a good long while", as she is enjoying a fish feast at night with her fellow campers. The zombies attack, prompting her to flee with the others to the RV, where she is seen in the background armed with a axe, and lead Carol and Sophia to Lori, Carl, and Shane, then she backed up Dale who was shooting with his rifle. She survives the attack while others are not so lucky.

and

As the survivors finally get Edwin to open the door for their escape, T-Dog grabs onto her arm, trying to pull her outside the room with her, but she pulls herself back, telling him she's staying. T-Dog tells her "That's INSANE!", attempting to pull her out with him a second time, but she once again resists, saying "No, it's completely sane, for the first time in a long time. I'm not ending up like Jim and Amy." This catches the attention of the rest of the group, as they all look back at her. Jacqui then tells T-Dog "There's no time to argue, and no point -- not if you want to get out. Just get out...get out!" she protests, then pushing T-Dog, but right after she touches T-Dog's face in a kind, motherly manner. Shane then pulls T-Dog out with the rest of the group, and Dale approaches Jacqui with a shocked look on his face. She backs away from Dale, shaking her head no, and then walks to the back of the room. She's then seen witnessing Dale's plead with Andrea to leave with him. As the rest of the group (who have managed to escape the building) are getting in their vehicles, the scene of Dale and Andrea escaping is shown on a monitor, revealing that Jacqui had ultimately decided to stay behind with Jenner, as Dale got Andrea to change her mind. Jenner says "They got out," to which Jacqui responds with a smile, happy that the people who helped her make it so far are able to continue fighting. She looks at Jenner, as they then hold onto each other's hands as the timer ticks down, and the CDC explodes. She died at peace, rather than some of her previous allies whose deaths were painful results of the walkers.

So Dale, and T-Dog, tried to help her...but unlike Andrea, was far more entrenched in her decision. But apparently she had no problem with Dale talking Andrea out of it.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Morpheus 02 wrote:

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Wow -- what judgment of a fictional character!

No different than someone posting volumes of defense for a fictional character.

By the way, have you missed the kind of assessments made of Lori and Shane all over the internet throughout seasons 1 and 2? The Lori character was raked through the coals, when she had more legit excuses for her behavior while thinking Rick was dead.

You're also confusing the Andrea & Dale of the comics, witht he TV show. TV Dale sees Amy & Andrea almost like his daughters.

No confusion here. TV Dale's intentions are not like that of a father, or even an uncle-type relationship (ex. Daryl and Carl).

And regarding Dale and Shane -- i believe he knows that Shane is Rick's best friend & cop partner (maybe even knowing that the friendship was from childhood). And when he saw Shane aiming a gun at Rick -- sorry, but how can you NOT consider that a red flag?! If it were Carol or Lori who saw that, they'd be just as concerned about Andrea as well.

I see his Shane issue with the fact she selected someone other than himself--and even if he did not see Shane aim the gun, Dale still held Shane in contempt for seeing the new world order in a way not packaged by his Neo-hippie views, which were dangerous, as there's no excuse for hiding the survivors' chief defense. It was a selfish, ideologically driven move which could have cost the lives of the entire party if a zombie attack occured at the same time.

Further, Andrea's interest in Shane/wannabe gunslinger mindset should have made it clear she's a different person than he is. She sees the world in a very black and white/do whatever is necessary view--the complete opposite of Dale. This is supported by her other morally questionable acts, such as the psychobabble "test" of the suicidal Beth, and post-Dale, the willing acceptance of post-Dale characters like the Governor, and the excuses she made about Woodbury to Michonne.

Andrea was never the fantasy ideologue conjured up in Dale's mind.

So for Jacqui's case...she didn't bond with anyone in the way Dale & Andrea did.

...which only makes Mr. Lets All Save Humanity even more of a hypocrite in that he--of all people--should have tried like Hell to convince a fellow human being to continue living--not just his would-be girlfriend.

[wissaboo]

[QUOTE=Morpheus 02;7393063]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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We honestly don't know squat about Jacqui. For all we know, she joined the group 2 days before Rick first encountered Glenn. She might have also been depressed/suicidal anyway making it much harder to talk her down. Andrea, when Amy was alive, certainly had plenty of

we don't know when anyone joined the group. For all we know Dale joined 2 days before Rick showed up

[Morpheus 02]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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...which only makes Mr. Lets All Save Humanity even more of a hypocrite in that he--of all people--should have tried like Hell to convince a fellow human being to continue living--not just his would-be girlfriend.

Please answer my question -- when have you EVER heard of someone trying to convince 2 (i.e. more than 1 persona at a time) people out of suicide...especially given the time limit (like 5 minutes or less)? Your accusation is completely unrealistic, even for a fantasy show.

And again, the COMIC had Dale & Andrea be romantically involved. The TV version is different -- or do you not accept the possibility that a male can care for a female without it being sexual?

[wissaboo]

Morpheus 02 wrote:

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Please answer my question -- when have you EVER heard of someone trying to convince 2 (i.e. more than 1 persona at a time) people out of suicide...especially given the time limit (like 5 minutes or less)? Your accusation is completely unrealistic, even for a fantasy show.

And again, the COMIC had Dale & Andrea be romantically involved. The TV version is different -- or do you not accept the possibility that a male can care for a female without it being sexual?

yeah, it would have been impossible for him to say "if Jaqui and Andrea stay I'm staying " instead of "if Andrea stays I'm staying"

[RJDiogenes]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote:

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Yeah, the position of recognizing a horny old man manipulating others for his own concerns, and voting himself moral leader of the pack.

He's just a less effective version of the Governor, but if he had the numbers/loyal followers, he would fit right in a Woodbury of his own--even if he did not collect zombie heads or keep zombie daughters.

Gotcha.

[PKerr]

I know this is a bit off topic but I'm on vacation so I decided to have myself a WD marathon, I'm up to episode 3 and I'm once again baffled at why Merle is still stuck up on the roof hours, day/days after everyone left.

He is handcuffed to a 3/8" threaded rod, he could have kicked it lose from the clamp and L beam it is attached to in about 5 minutes or easily cut through it with the hacksaw in about 10 seconds even if it was stainless steel.

Second, I would think someone would pass out long and bleed to death before they finished cutting off their own hand.

Sorry, that is just something that bugged the piss out of me, I wish they would have handcuffed him to something that was a bit more believable that he would have been forced to cut off his own hand.

[DarthTom]

PKerr wrote:

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I know this is a bit off topic but I'm on vacation so I decided to have myself a WD marathon, I'm up to episode 3 and I'm once again baffled at why Merle is still stuck up on the roof hours, day/days after everyone left.

He is handcuffed to a 3/8" threaded rod, he could have kicked it lose from the clamp and L beam it is attached to in about 5 minutes or easily cut through it with the hacksaw in about 10 seconds even if it was stainless steel.

A suspension of disbelief is required for him not to be able to get out. Besides, why the urgency to cut off his hand as T-Dog had chain locked the door.

Second, I would think someone would pass out long and bleed to death before they finished cutting off their own hand.

This is more explainable. Merle was a drug abuser - high on cocaine when they chained him - so it's conceivable that he may with pure adrenaline been able to cut his hand off and made it to that mini Kitchen where he cauterized the wound.

BTW, during the civil war and before modern anesthetics, many people remained completely conscious during leg amputations - so it is medically feasible for him to stay awake.

[TREK_GOD_1]

wissaboo wrote:

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yeah, it would have been impossible for him to say "if Jaqui and Andrea stay I'm staying " instead of "if Andrea stays I'm staying"

Exactly--if Dale was such a caring guy, how difficult would it have been to play his hand with both instead of one. He did not, because his personal/creepy interest was not in Jacqui--to him, she was like a toy action figure to be tossed aside during playtime. He was single-minded, much like his open disregard for the safety of the group when he hid the guns while everywhere they run it is overrun by zombies.

[RJDiogenes]

PKerr wrote:

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Second, I would think someone would pass out long and bleed to death before they finished cutting off their own hand.

This has happened in real life. It is definitely possible to cut off your own arm if your life is in peril. A farmer, for example, who got his hand caught in some sort of farm equipment and was being sucked in was able to amputate his arm and save himself.

As for the rod, they probably had to make do with what was available at the location and hope that nobody noticed.

[Venardhi]

What I don't get is why not start with the pinky or thumb? Surely The whole hand should be a last resort.

[wissaboo]

cause it's more dramatic. Can you imagine him running around this season with a big metal pinky with knife attachements? not nearly as much fun

[RJDiogenes]

I can imagine him with a big metal middle finger.