RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,901
Posts: 5,387,324
Members: 24,717
Currently online: 620
Newest member: teriankhoka

TrekToday headlines

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16

Eve Engaged
By: T'Bonz on Aug 15

Shatner’s Get A Life DVD Debuts
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14

TV Alert: Takei Oprah Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Aug 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Fandom > Fan Art

Fan Art Post your Trek fan art here, including hobby models and collectibles.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 12 2012, 04:28 PM   #1201
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Star Ship Polaris

I agree. I'm trying to determine just how subtle the shading can be and still matter at all.

I've decided on a certain panel scale and trying to maintain a consistency about that over the various surfaces where any panel shading is used. Even if this ship were larger than it is, I think the paneling on a lot of the Star Trek ships is under-scaled. Someone calculated that the average panel size on Excelsior would work out to under a foot square!

The mesh conversion is done, BTW.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 04:53 PM   #1202
B.J.
Rear Admiral
 
B.J.'s Avatar
 
Location: Huntsville, AL, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

If it's between one or the other, I prefer B. The panel lines there are more subtle than A.
__________________
B.J. --- bj-o23.deviantart.com
B.J. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 05:56 PM   #1203
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

My suggestion is to avoid random patterns for the most part, which it looks like you've done. Regular patterns with slight tonal variation from one panel to the next seem to work best. I actually prefer delineating the panels with those tonal variations rather than actually outlining the panels, just looks less like '90s TV sci-fi CG.

Try to avoid panel lines that intersect windows, vents and other apertures. They wouldn't build a real ship that way and the eye instinctively registers it as unrealistic.

Don't forget hatches and access panels, though they should be minimally and logically placed. If your UV mapping allows it, you might also include some markings, decals, signage, etc. I did some warning indicators for the maneuvering thrusters in one of the concept sketches that I could send you. I also had red markings surrounding the lander module bays that you might consider reapplying.

Oh, did I send you the name and registry number graphics earlier?
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 06:16 PM   #1204
Psion
Commodore
 
Psion's Avatar
 
Location: Lat: 40.1630936 Lon: -75.1183777
View Psion's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Ship Polaris

I'm with B.J. -- I prefer the subtler work. But the differences are so slight that I'm half-convinced this is a human psychology experiment and you better damned well have all your institution's experimental review board paperwork in order.
__________________
Twinkies are back. I knew they couldn't stay away from me for long.
Psion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 07:00 PM   #1205
USS Intrepid
Commodore
 
USS Intrepid's Avatar
 
Location: Dundee, Scotland, UK
Re: Star Ship Polaris

I can't see any difference. Take that as you will.
__________________
Star Trek: Intrepid
USS Intrepid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 08:10 PM   #1206
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Star Ship Polaris

Example "B" actually doesn't have panel lines as such but shading near the edges of the panels. I think it's the one, and the panels could probably stand to be even a little less contrast-y.

Ditto on avoiding panels that cross windows, etc, although one of these comes pretty close and I probably ought to eliminate that panel break altogether.

I may eliminate the specularity map that matches the panel break-up in favor of something more general. You look at real world large vehicles - aircraft carriers or even commercial aircraft - you don't see the kind of patchwork variations in color, glossiness and so on that I think were really popularized by Star Trek (tracking back to the paint finish on the ST:TMP model). Most such things are painted or otherwise surface treated for protective purposes and cleaned with some regularity. The obvious reason for doing it with models is to add scale, doubly so with CG models where the polygons themselves don't have render with the surface imperfections of plastic, metal or paint.

It also seems to be the rule that CG models rendered for orthos and other stills look over-painted relative to how they appear under the "lighting" conditions and blur introduced in video animation.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 11:40 PM   #1207
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

When I did the noise maps near the end of the modeling process, I used the same maps in the diffuse and specular slots (technically the glossiness slot). The result was that the lighter areas had some shininess and the darker areas were more dull. I never did fine-tune it, but the intent was to create an overall weathering effect as though interstellar dust, thruster exhaust and that sort of thing had built up unevenly over a period of years.

If I ever get around to texturing the 3ds Max version of this, I'd like to do a full UV mapping of the whole model and then do some really nice, hi-res maps with bolts and rivets, rain streaks and light corrosion (from those brief periods when it was actually planetside), re-entry carbonization, etc. Hopefully I'll get around to that one day.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 11:45 PM   #1208
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
It also seems to be the rule that CG models rendered for orthos and other stills look over-painted relative to how they appear under the "lighting" conditions and blur introduced in video animation.
I believe this is true for live-action as well as CG. Details are routinely exaggerated in everything from makeup to set dressing just so they won't be overpowered and washed out by the lights and don't get lost when set in motion. I remember the huge uproar back when still photos were leaked of the shuttlecraft interiors for the last Trek film, how everything looked dirty and worn and so very un-Starfleet pristine, but I don't remember hearing anyone complain about how it looked in the actual movie.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12 2012, 11:56 PM   #1209
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Star Ship Polaris

I read a brief interview with the makeup artist on Spielberg's Lincoln film - she's worked with him on quite a few movies, and she says that the recording of images has become so much more sensitive that even extras in a crowd have to be made up now to avoid the color and tone contrasts between natural skin and film makeup.

I just merged a couple of panels to get that one forward window away from the edge.

Oh, BTW - you did give me the registry maps, thanks.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; December 13 2012 at 12:37 AM.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13 2012, 08:05 PM   #1210
aridas sofia
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Star Ship Polaris

I think it is only appropriate that I finally post, now that Vektor has more or less completed his work and Dennis is onto the task of texturing the model. I think anyone that casually reviews this thread will quickly note that there is a vast difference between the concept for the ship Polaris that I originally envisioned and the one that has come to pass. That is as it should be. Pursuits such as these are collaborative processes and it was, after all, my idea to bring Vektor on to develop my conceptual work into a more finished model. I have had nothing but positive experiences working with him over the years, both with the Polaris design and my Kiaga, and continue to be amazed at how good he is at the art of elaboration. A composer can start out with a catchy theme and if it cannot be elaborated into something that retains that catchy core while still being believably complex, it will remain an unfinished idea. Such was my work on Polaris, which try as I might simply could not overcome my own prejudices for smoothness and sleekness, for the connection between theory and design, and for avoiding/evoking visual Star Trek cues.

More than anything I am glad that by bringing him into the mix, I might have played some tiny role in putting a talented artist in a position to get noticed and hopefully be able to pursue his passion and profit. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we'd benefit along with him from that good fortune.

Last edited by aridas sofia; December 14 2012 at 04:27 AM.
aridas sofia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2012, 03:51 AM   #1211
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

Thanks, Aridas, that's very kind of you. I really appreciate the opportunity and the great base you gave me to work from with your original design.

Hopefully one day soon I'll be able to go back and give the Kiaga the proper finish it deserves!
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2012, 08:11 AM   #1212
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

Cropped it down some, added some piping and conduit, glowy things, and another big, horkin' console in front to hide Maurice from the waist down.



Most of this new stuff is still unfinished and not remotely cleaned up, but it's getting there.
__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2012, 08:13 AM   #1213
Albertese
Commodore
 
Albertese's Avatar
 
Location: Portland, OR
Re: Star Ship Polaris

As always, your attention to details is stunning.

--Alex
__________________
Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
Albertese is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14 2012, 11:36 PM   #1214
Psion
Commodore
 
Psion's Avatar
 
Location: Lat: 40.1630936 Lon: -75.1183777
View Psion's Twitter Profile
Re: Star Ship Polaris

Very nice. This has gone from being a simple sketch to practically a digital matte painting. And we've all watched it evolve, which is a special treat.

If only you'd been around before J.J. Abrams said, "Awww, fuckit, let's just do a brewery instead!"
__________________
Twinkies are back. I knew they couldn't stay away from me for long.
Psion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15 2012, 12:38 AM   #1215
Vektor
Rear Admiral
 
Vektor's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA, USA
Re: Star Ship Polaris

Some refinement to the foreground consoles and still trying to balance visual contrast between elements with steam and such. Right now it seems to me like a lot of stuff is just running together and the depth cues aren't working as well as they should. Opinions?

__________________
www.vektorvisual.com
Vektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.