What if Cumberbatch is not the "Villain"?

[M'Sharak]

Vektor wrote:

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I wasn't suggesting that Harrison isn't a villain. I have no doubt that he is up to some very bad things and will be the prime mover in this film, but there could be an even bigger villain not yet revealed, especially if Harrison truly is a completely original character and not somebody like Khan or Mitchell masquerading under an alias.

Some recent interview excerpts may provide hints:

Cumberbatch: (on his character) "He is very ruthless…He is not a clearly good or evil character. He is a villain but the actions he takes has intent and reason." (cinematoday.jp)

Cumberbatch: "He is a complicated character not to be judged by white-or-black, or good-or-evil. But this is the appeal of J.J.’s works and I felt challenge as an actor." (http://www.cinemacafe.net/news/cgi/r...2012/12/14550/)

Abrams: (on Cumberbatch’s character) "The character is a villain and scary, but I was looking for an actor with humanity who audiences can sympathies with. When I saw Benedict in Sherlock, I wanted to convince him whatever it took. I expected a lot from him, but Benedict responded by acting beyond my expectations." (to which Cumberbatch responded "This may be better than Sherlock. (laughs)" (http://eiga.com/news/20121204/10/ ?)

(Quoting from TrekMovie article here)

Cumberbatch's character takes actions which are villainous. It seems clear that he is a villain, but "complicated" - could be room for another baddie (or at least someone who's less than good.)

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Vorta Claus wrote:

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John Harrison isn't the villain, he's just some hapless Starfleet officer who was killed by Lord Garth, the shapeshifter, and replaced so that he could carry out his nefarious schemes to insanely destroy the Federation bwahahaha!!! Cumby is playing two characters.

That might actually make sense, come to think of it. If nuGarth is taught shapeshifting, like Garth Prime was, and thus goes bonkers, he could kill somebody and replace them. Garth Prime almost did that in TOS.

[ROBE]

I pointed out on another post that Harrison is shown beating up a guy in blue top with black arms. According to the toy line these are the villains.
Harrison is the Snape of Trek.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

I thought the Kre-o toys listed the blue-torso/black arm uniformed characters as "specialists"?

[yousirname]

I do think there's still some basis for the notion that Weller is a villain and Cummerbund is his henchman gone rogue. If only because:

Harrison does that Godfather 3/Matrix style helicopter shooting scene. The Matrix scene is the more important signifier as a reference, because part of Neo's job there was to be sure and not hit Morpheus, no? And we have reason to suspect Weller doesn't die in the shooting, which is dropping the ball a little bit if you're Harrison, isn't it? Unless he intentionally didn't hit Weller... and maybe Kirk also. Though the latter is based on my hunch that, like TDK and Skyfall, Harrison's capture will turn out to be part of his longer plan. So who knows?

[ROBE]

King Daniel your correct Kre-O state the blue/black shirts as Specialists, however in their Press release they called them villains.

[JarodRussell]

Vektor wrote:

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Yeah, I've picked up on that in a couple of places since I drafted this post, though I have yet to see a reference for it. It wouldn't really change my theory much. Admiral Marcus could be the head of Section 31, or Section 31 might not figure into it at all, just some branch of Starfleet with nefarious motives.

Then again, if Gary Seven had been alive and manipulating events on Earth and throughout the Federation for 250 years, he certainly wouldn't have gone by the name Gary Seven that whole time. Maybe Seven is Admiral Marcus and Carol Marcus is his daughter. Total speculation, sure, but so is everything else.

Personally, I think Gary Seven as the founder and head of Section 31 makes perfect sense. Wouldn't be the first time Hollywood has taken a protagonist and turned them into an antagonist as time and tragedy or other forces have worn them down.

Also, I can't get over how much Peter Weller looks like Robert Lansing.

Geez, Section 31 again.

Section 31 is a DS9 only product that nobody knows or cares about, especially not Abrams and Co.

[LobsterAfternoon]

A) it's also on Enterprise
B) I'm glad you're psychic/actually JJ Abrams.

[bullethead]

I'm guessing the Klingons are the real villains of the film, along with these "Specialists," while Cumberbatch might be an anti-hero/villain that might have been screwed over by the Specialists. That, of course, assumes the Specialists are actually working for the Federation and not the Klingons.

[Therin of Andor]

JarodRussell wrote:

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Section 31 is a DS9 only product that nobody knows or cares about, especially not Abrams and Co.

Well, Bob Orci helped plant an easter egg about a secret organisation wooing Sulu in one of the IDW comics.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

ROBE wrote:

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King Daniel your correct Kre-O state the blue/black shirts as Specialists, however in their Press release they called them villains.

Thanks for the clarification. My bad.

[Franklin]

yousirname wrote:

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I do think there's still some basis for the notion that Weller is a villain and Cummerbund is his henchman gone rogue. If only because:

Harrison does that Godfather 3/Matrix style helicopter shooting scene. The Matrix scene is the more important signifier as a reference, because part of Neo's job there was to be sure and not hit Morpheus, no? And we have reason to suspect Weller doesn't die in the shooting, which is dropping the ball a little bit if you're Harrison, isn't it? Unless he intentionally didn't hit Weller... and maybe Kirk also. Though the latter is based on my hunch that, like TDK and Skyfall, Harrison's capture will turn out to be part of his longer plan. So who knows?

Was that Weller's voice in the trailer telling Kirk Starfleet isn't about vendettas? If so, he must survive the attack.

Weller's role may be deeper because:

First, Weller said in interviews that he had his own starship. If he's offed in Harrison's attack, all he did in the movie was sit at a desk and die. Is that Weller's ship seen by the moon? Is it the one that crashes into SF Bay? Second, there has to be some thematic reason for him being named Adm. Marcus, while Eve's character is Carol Marcus. If it doesn't matter to the story, Weller's character could've had any other name. The "family" theme. Carol has skin in the game. Does she have to face up to anything her dad did, and feel she has to set it right? Third, Harrison has a cause based on what he calls, "crimes" by the commanders. It could be Weller and others in the admirality do have something to hide, and want to stop Harrison not for the obvious reasons of terrorism, but to protect a coverup of some kind. Fourth, in the translation of the first 28 minutes of the film shown in Brazil, Weller says that getting Harrison is a manhunt, plain and simple. Just go out there, find him, and kill him. Get rid of the thug. Why? Because the more he does or the more he talks, it reflects on the admiralty?

Anyway, just some spitballing.

[WarpFactorZ]

It's pretty clear Marcus / Weller doesn't die in the attack, since he's the one advising Kirk that "Starfleet isn't about vendettas".

[CorporalClegg]

Is this time for the obligatory some villains are not necessarily the primary antagonist of the story post?

[Xaios]

See, I figured that Helicopter shooting scene was a callback to the Voyager episode where the Trabe tried to sabotage the peace negotiation meeting with the Kazon being brokered by Janeway.