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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 11 2012, 09:44 PM   #16
Bishop76
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Re: I know who the villain is.

Also, Soran is probably the most forgettable, shitty villain in a Trek movie ever and JJ and crew would have to be severely mentally damaged to consider using him.
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Old December 11 2012, 10:24 PM   #17
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: I know who the villain is.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
jhouston6 wrote: View Post
Santa Hooves wrote: View Post

Actually, MILLIONS of people in Star Trek have lost their families. In the 2009 movie alone, billions of Vulcans and Romulans died. Gods knows how many perished from the attack on Earth, or the attack on the fleet. In that vein, you might as well make "Cupcake" the villain.
A villain from TOS and movies who lost their family. Look at a picture of a young Malcolm McDowell and Benedict Cumberbatch and tell me that he couldn't play a young Tolian Soran.
He's not Soran.
No, no:

It's not Soran.

Little things...
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Old December 11 2012, 10:33 PM   #18
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Re: I know who the villain is.

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
jhouston6 wrote: View Post
A villain from TOS and movies who lost their family. Look at a picture of a young Malcolm McDowell and Benedict Cumberbatch and tell me that he couldn't play a young Tolian Soran.
He's not Soran.
No, no:

It's not Soran.

Little things...
John Harrison's gender is unknown? Damn, JJ is getting really stingy with the details here.
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Old December 12 2012, 02:34 AM   #19
jhouston6
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Re: I know who the villain is.

Not as much continuity as you might think. While Soran was a refugee from a borg attack in generations it was never established that it was the attack on the El Aurian homeworld. It's possible that the El Aurians just kept running from planet to planet over the course of 60 years. The two places that are known to be attacked are Earth and Kronos. Both places that accessed future technology in the last film. Remember the Klingons had Nero's ship for 25 years. I think that this character is going after technology from the Narada.
Xaios wrote: View Post
They'd have to break continuity into little tiny pieces to make Soran the villain for this film. Star Trek (2009) occurs mostly during 2258. Assuming that the four years between films is translated real-time, that would mean STID occurs at about 2262.

Now, in fairness, the El-Aurians were a space-faring race long before that, with Guinan having visited Earth in the 1800s. However, the Borg don't attack El-Auria until 2265, 3 years before. Not only would Soran not yet be a refugee, he'd have no motive, or at least nothing that minutely resembled his motive from Generations. He'd be the same villain in name only. It's one thing for Nero's actions to have a measurable effect on someone who grew up in the immediate vicinity of Starfleet so that it could change the course of their life, such as John Harrison, who may or may not be the same Lt. Harrison from TOS. It's another thing for Nero's actions to have an effect on two species who were damn near completely unrelated to the Federation, in an event happening on the other side of the galaxy.

There are other reasons as well. For example, Generations establishes that Soran is over 300 years old, which means if he were in STID, he'd be just shy of 200 years old at the very least, so it's unlikely that they'd cast someone who looks so much younger. (Granted, El-Aurian aging is a bit of an enigma, what with Guinan having hardly aged a day over the course of about 500 years, and she still looks younger than Soran).
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I will hijack my own post to say that I always thougt Soran got an undeserved bad rap as a villian. Not only does he have a reasonable motivation and goal (honestly, he's the most believable of all the TNG film villains, and the least generic), but he's Malcolm f***ing McDowell.
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Old December 12 2012, 03:21 AM   #20
Dukhat
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Re: I know who the villain is.

jhouston6 wrote: View Post
J.J. Abrams and company have picked as their new villain the only villain who managed to kill Captain Kirk. The new villain is Soran. Look at the poster which features Cumberbatch wearing a trench coat which is what Soran wore in Generations. He is a character from canon that TOS crew never really dealt with. He has definite motives for revenge and he bares a very strong resemblance to Malcolm McDowell and he even sounds like him.

Two problems with your theory.

1. We already know the villain now, and it's not Soran.

2. You based your overwhelming evidence on the fact that both characters wear trenchcoats and have British accents. By that logic, he's also Shinzon.
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Old December 12 2012, 03:25 AM   #21
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: I know who the villain is.

jhouston6 wrote: View Post
Not as much continuity as you might think. While Soran was a refugee from a borg attack in generations it was never established that it was the attack on the El Aurian homeworld. It's possible that the El Aurians just kept running from planet to planet over the course of 60 years. The two places that are known to be attacked are Earth and Kronos. Both places that accessed future technology in the last film. Remember the Klingons had Nero's ship for 25 years. I think that this character is going after technology from the Narada.

That's a ridiculous, huge amount of continuity linking this film to another one made almost twenty years ago - and it would be to no good end at all. No one cares about Soran.
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Old December 12 2012, 04:16 AM   #22
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Re: I know who the villain is.

I care.
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Old December 12 2012, 05:20 AM   #23
Dukhat
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Re: I know who the villain is.

^No you don't. Stop lying.
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Old December 12 2012, 05:54 AM   #24
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Re: I know who the villain is.

I like his hair.
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Old December 12 2012, 05:59 AM   #25
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Re: I know who the villain is.

I'm betting it's Mitch Connor. Just your run of the mill con man. He's been moving from town to town, scamming people since he was fifteen. But he's tired of running.
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Old December 12 2012, 06:59 AM   #26
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Re: I know who the villain is.

jhouston6 wrote: View Post
Not as much continuity as you might think. While Soran was a refugee from a borg attack in generations it was never established that it was the attack on the El Aurian homeworld. It's possible that the El Aurians just kept running from planet to planet over the course of 60 years. The two places that are known to be attacked are Earth and Kronos. Both places that accessed future technology in the last film. Remember the Klingons had Nero's ship for 25 years. I think that this character is going after technology from the Narada.
Xaios wrote: View Post
They'd have to break continuity into little tiny pieces to make Soran the villain for this film. Star Trek (2009) occurs mostly during 2258. Assuming that the four years between films is translated real-time, that would mean STID occurs at about 2262.

Now, in fairness, the El-Aurians were a space-faring race long before that, with Guinan having visited Earth in the 1800s. However, the Borg don't attack El-Auria until 2265, 3 years before. Not only would Soran not yet be a refugee, he'd have no motive, or at least nothing that minutely resembled his motive from Generations. He'd be the same villain in name only. It's one thing for Nero's actions to have a measurable effect on someone who grew up in the immediate vicinity of Starfleet so that it could change the course of their life, such as John Harrison, who may or may not be the same Lt. Harrison from TOS. It's another thing for Nero's actions to have an effect on two species who were damn near completely unrelated to the Federation, in an event happening on the other side of the galaxy.

There are other reasons as well. For example, Generations establishes that Soran is over 300 years old, which means if he were in STID, he'd be just shy of 200 years old at the very least, so it's unlikely that they'd cast someone who looks so much younger. (Granted, El-Aurian aging is a bit of an enigma, what with Guinan having hardly aged a day over the course of about 500 years, and she still looks younger than Soran).
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I will hijack my own post to say that I always thougt Soran got an undeserved bad rap as a villian. Not only does he have a reasonable motivation and goal (honestly, he's the most believable of all the TNG film villains, and the least generic), but he's Malcolm f***ing McDowell.
Absolutely! It will break loads of canon! Soran didn’t enter the picture until the launch of the NCC—1701-B. The events of this film occur approximately, what, forty years before that? And as far as anybody knows, the Borg haven’t stepped up their game in the JJ-verse.
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Old December 13 2012, 03:31 AM   #27
siskokid888
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Re: I know who the villain is.

While I'm positive it's not Soran, it's not a far fetched idea. Soran did initially make it into the Nexus, maybe he still has a bitter "shadow" there. It was shown that you can pop in and out of the Nexus anywhere along the timeline, maybe he went back to his younger self in the new timeline to convince him to seek revenge on Kirk and company. He's established as a nutty obsessive, so he just goes nuts at a younger age.

P.S. I agree with the earlier poster that Soran was a decent villain, and not least because it was Malcom F*****g McDowell
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Old December 13 2012, 03:42 AM   #28
The Wormhole
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Re: I know who the villain is.

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post

He's not Soran.
No, no:

It's not Soran.

Little things...
John Harrison's gender is unknown? Damn, JJ is getting really stingy with the details here.
Abrams won't even confirm that John Harrison has a gender.

Actually, I imagine interviews for Trek XIII will go something like this:

Interviewer: "What can you tell us about the villain?"
Abrams: "A villain is a character in a movie who traditionally has an agenda contrary to the one of the main characters."
Interviewer: "But what about this villain."
Abrams: "This villain will have an agenda contrary to that of the movie's main characters."
Interviewer: "So he's causing trouble for Captain Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise?"
Abrams: "Captain Kirk is a main character in the movie. The Enterprise is his ship, and it has a crew."
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Old December 13 2012, 03:55 AM   #29
Set Harth
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Re: I know who the villain is.

AJBlue98 wrote: View Post
And as far as anybody knows, the Borg haven’t stepped up their game in the JJ-verse.
As far as anybody knows.
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Old December 13 2012, 04:10 AM   #30
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: I know who the villain is.

SmoothieX wrote: View Post
I'm betting it's Mitch Connor. Just your run of the mill con man. He's been moving from town to town, scamming people since he was fifteen. But he's tired of running.



Does Harrison love tacos?
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