General Pro Wrestling News and Discussion Thread Part Deux!

[Ghost Bones]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...c-2-dec-8-2012

Another shower of shite from all sides. Still, TNA have a PPV. Exciting!

[Mr Silver]

The quality of WWE has tremendously gone to hell in the last few months. I'll only watch the first hour - at best - of the show. I really wish WWE would kindly replace the WWE Championship (monstrosity non-spinner spinner belt) with the new incarnation (which I can't see being much better, but better at least).

I have no idea what Vince McMahon thinks he is accomplishing by coming out and doing the goofy sarcasm shtick with Vickie Guerrero. Could it be that this is a prelude to her firing as managing director (couldn't they just have billed her as interim GM, FFS?!) and replacement with somebody else? (Foley, Flair, Vince himself?)

[Admiral_Young]

Last few months? You guys know I've been maintaining it's been going down hill a lot longer than that. It's just become much more apparent. I've seen one segment of Raw or Smackown in the last month and a half. Probably the main reason this thread has been so dead is because none of us are really watch anything any more lol.

[Icemizer]

Vince is back because A. His wife is no longer running for office so he doesnt have to hide, and B. because he thinks his presence can save shows that suck. Sorry Vince the shows are still bad. You cannot fill three hours every week with the same twelve guys. There has been a noticable uptick in match quality over the past two weeks, but certain angles like Vickie/AJ just slam the momentum of the show right down. No one cares. Hopefully some Rock/Punk verbal battles will give the show a bit of life.

[Admiral_Young]

At this point I'm not sure what can "save" the programming. I will admit to be interested in The Shield, but we'll see where they go with it, they keep dropping the ball with stuff like this so it becomes frustrating to watch.

[Sheep]

Admiral_Young wrote:

---

At this point I'm not sure what can "save" the programming.

1. Better booking that doesn't treat character continuity and common sense as afterthoughts.

2. Building actual angles and feuds for wrestlers beyond the top 8-10 guys.

3. Not having every single tag team look like jobbers by having Ryberg or Big Show defeat them in handicap matches or squash one member in one-on-one matches.

4. Not giving us the black hole of heat that is Alberto Del Rio vs. Sheamus for the 3,027th time since April. Del Rio is actually growing on me by putting on good matches though I still think Sheamus is a lost cause.

5. Getting Khaliswoggle the fuck off my television and relegating them to the Saturday morning kid-focused show.

I've been watching the Hulu Plus version of Raw lately and don't feel like I'm missing anything interesting despite 40-45 minutes being cut (the Hulu Plus versions are edited down to 90 minutes of actual show). That speaks volumes about how bloated the three hour Raw is. Main Event has actually been pretty good with a consistent focus on wrestling from the upper midcard guys like Cesaro and Kofi and minimal recaps of shitty angles (OMG! Two single people are having an affair?!?!!? SCANDAL!!!!1). Smackdown's bipolar, at best--good one week, complete tripe the next.

For me, continuing to watch WWE programming even though I find a lot of it completely awful is like waiting for them to finally do something shocking and interesting. It might never happen but I hold out hope as midguided as that may be.

[Admiral_Young]

The booking and writing to me are the biggest problem with the programming right now and has been at least since probably around last fall. Now I think we've all been in agreement that the various injuries guys have suffered over the last year has been significant and probably hampered things, but that is no excuse for the active roster. It is almost like they've forgotten how to do things or something. I've never seen anything like what we've been getting over the last couple of months.

Funny you should mention waiting for them to do "something shocking and interesting". That's precisely why I was still watching when quality was starting to fall apart. I think fans right now are starved for something to happen. The Shield has piqued interest a little bit, but we've been let down by various stuff. I still can't believe they basically used Brock just twice this year and that's been it.

[blueziggy]

the biggest issue for me has been the recent trend of what happened 6 months ago doesnt matter any more. the whole aj/cena/vickie thing would have been fine if vickie wasnt linked to dolph and edge for periods of time. could have made this work a bit if they just had dolph dump vickie and have her go after aj/cena in a fit of spite.

shamus just doesnt do anything for me as a face. he was much better as a heel, same with orton. punks role of tweener a few months ago was better. now that hes full fledged heel makes being a fan of his harder. should have kept the anti establishment gig and ran with it against cena as being the corporate guy.

finally, the rock basically guaranteeing the main events of rumble and mania has hurt more then helped. sure ill watch but basically im just waiting for the lead up to start and this is just filler now.

[DigificWriter]

I've been perusing Bleacher Report a lot today, and it's been interesting to see some of the articles that have cropped up regarding the WWE's current Divas division. Even with the departures of Beth, Kharma, and Kelly Kelly (who, while not as talented as some others, wasn't a slouch in the ring by any means), the WWE's current Divas roster is a lot more talented than I think a lot of people realize. All that's really lacking is the right approach to the division, and I'm hopeful that, with the WWE having approached focus groups with regards to the direction of the division going forward, things will start to turn around, since there's an awful lot of talent being wasted right now.

[Admiral_Young]

Hasn't that always been a problem in the current era though? How the Divas have been used or underutilized? They've been in Vince's dog house on several occasions and remember there was like a two month period during that time where we basically didn't see them. I agree that they need the right approach, they need someone to actually take the time and invest in them as a legit division. I don't see that happening any time soon unfortunately.

[DigificWriter]

^ Yeah, the usage of the WWE divas division has been an issue for a while, and it's what led to the departures of people like Beth, Kelly, and Maxine, but, whatever lies behind the decision to not utilize the Divas division to its fullest potential, a lack of talent really isn't as big a mitigating factor as I think many people think it is. The only Diva on the current roster who is more suited to being a valet than an in-ring competitor is the Funkadactyl Cameron, and, if the WWE could figure out what they want to do vis a vis the division going forward, there's really no reason why we couldn't be seeing healthy competition for the Divas title on a frequent, if not regular, basis from everyone else on the current roster.

[Satyrquaze]

blueziggy wrote:

---

the biggest issue for me has been the recent trend of what happened 6 months ago doesnt matter any more. the whole aj/cena/vickie thing would have been fine if vickie wasnt linked to dolph and edge for periods of time. could have made this work a bit if they just had dolph dump vickie and have her go after aj/cena in a fit of spite.

Actually, I felt that the fact that fans know that Vickie is a giant hypocrite is a good portion of the heat she is getting as of late. AJ even brought up Vickie's questionable relationship with Dolph and Edge and Vickie hand-waved it. That said, the storyline isn't doing a thing for me at all.

The part that actually bugs me (and keep in mind that I am a genuine fan of AJ's) is that within a very short amount of time AJ has persued relationships with Daniel Bryan, Kane, CM Punk, and John Cena. Other than intentions, how is her doing that different from Eve's actions that got her saddled with the unfortunate monkier of "Hoeski"?

Why is it seemingly impossible for AJ (or nearly any modern Diva for that matter) to get by without having a male in the picture to direct all their aspirations toward. Did Beth Phoenix really need Santino to get over as a dominant competitor? Would Awesome Kong/Kharma? I feel like if they really were But, It's a moot point since there isn't a women's (sorry Divas) division to speak of anyway.

I wish Kharma had stuck around longer in the E, I think that would have been fun to watch. But then again, WWE creative had no idea what to do with Gail Kim other than have her hang on Daniel Bryan.

[Mr Silver]

If they stopped hiring underwear models and "aspiring" actresses, they would have a considerably lesser problem with the Divas division. So many of them come into WWE with the idea that it will serve as a stepping stone, as a result, they never truly commit to the wrestling profession. Out of all Divas that have worked for the WWE, since the term and branding was coined, these are the only names I can think of that were truly focused on being career wrestlers:

Jacqueline Moore (retired from regular competition)
Ivory (retired)
Beth Phoenix (left WWE, albeit with the door open for her to return)
Gail Kim (left WWE and returned to TNA)
Lita (retired from regular competition due to accumulative injuries)
Molly Holly (left WWE)
Victoria/Tara (left WWE and went to TNA)
Natalya: (still with WWE, presumably because her partner - Tyson Kidd still is)

[DigificWriter]

^It's not fair to say that only those women who were 'career wrestlers' achieved lasting success in the WWE, nor is it accurate: Trish Stratus (she of the 7 WWE Women's Championship reigns) and Michelle McCool (the Diva who's come the closest to being Trish's truest successor) started out their careers as a model/fitness instructor and teacher, respectively. You also left Ivory off of your list, which further belies the argument you were trying to make since she started out her career as an actual wrestler the same way that the others you mentioned did.

The sentiment that the WWE's biggest problem is that they hire models/actresses rather than actual wrestlers also doesn't hold true because of the success that Kelly Kelly, Eve, and Layla have achieved; although none of those three will ever hold a candle to Trish, Lita, Beth Phoenix, and Kharma when it comes to their sheer in-ring ability, they actually do have in-ring skills.

[Admiral_Young]

I was actually quite upset when I heard Beth was fired, she was one of my favourites. Yeah Gail Kim's stint/s in the WWE were wasted.