And Cumberbatch's Character Is? [spoilers]

[Flux Capacitor]

Vorta Claus wrote:

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The only reason I've backed off Garthism is that Cumby is just too young to play the character. He's the same age as Pine, and Garth should be Pike's contemporary.

Cumberbatch is 4 years older than Pine. Not a huge umber, but I do believe Kirk is supposed to be a bit younger than Pine is. I could easily buy that Kirk is younger than Garth.

[Vektor]

It's hardly an established fact that Cumberbatch's John Harrison has anything whatsoever to do with the recurring extra from those 27 TOS episodes, even if the name isn't just an alias.

What I'm having a hard time figuring out is why they would bother with the whole "I have returned to have my vengeance" angle with a character we've never seen or heard of before. Not to say it isn't possible to introduce a brand new character, fill in his back story with a plausible motive for vengeance and make the whole thing work, it just seems... odd.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Sounds like an alias name to me, so they can stall in revealing his actual name until the last possible minute.

[Shilliam Watner]

Vektor wrote:

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It's hardly an established fact that Cumberbatch's John Harrison has anything whatsoever to do with the recurring extra from those 27 TOS episodes, even if the name isn't just an alias.

What I'm having a hard time figuring out is why they would bother with the whole "I have returned to have my vengeance" angle with a character we've never seen or heard of before. Not to say it isn't possible to introduce a brand new character, fill in his back story with a plausible motive for vengeance and make the whole thing work, it just seems... odd.

After thinking some more, I believe enhanced John Harrison could be a double agent that was sent on a secret mission either by Section 31 or Starfleet to the Klingon home world to retrieve Nero’s papers he wrote while in prison at Rura Penthe. Think about it. Those were very important technological papers the Klingons probably studied and it would connect this movie to the first movie in this trilogy.

[Therin of Andor]

The Wormhole wrote:

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Even if the movie doesn't actually confirm he is the same character, everyone is going to assume he is anyway. And when Pocket Books is finally able to do novels set in the Abramsverse, they may well decide to make the connection.

The IDW comics have already told us that "Cupcake" is the minor canonical redshirt Hendorff, from TOS. They recently centred a whole issue about him.

[Therin of Andor]

Mr Silver wrote:

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The concept of an extra being a big shot in an alternate universe (especially with a near 50 year gap between productions), is something that just cannot work when you are making a film aimed at majority audiences.

Zod, Non and Ursa were barely even name-dropped in the first "Superman" movie, yet they were the featured villains of "Superman II". They didn't start out as extras, of course, but definitely only cameos.

[Pondslider]

Therin of Andor wrote:

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Zod, Non and Ursa were barely even name-dropped in the first "Superman" movie, yet they were the featured villains of "Superman II". They didn't start out as extras, of course, but definitely only cameos.

Zod was a character from the comics long before Superman 2 though.

[ssosmcin]

Vorta Claus wrote:

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The only reason I've backed off Garthism is that Cumby is just too young to play the character. He's the same age as Pine, and Garth should be Pike's contemporary.

I wouldn't worry about ages at this point. They made Chekov a few years older in this timeline so he could be on the bridge inthe last movie. Everyone has been fudged with.

[King Daniel into Darkness]

The Wormhole wrote:

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Even if the movie doesn't actually confirm he is the same character, everyone is going to assume he is anyway. And when Pocket Books is finally able to do novels set in the Abramsverse, they may well decide to make the connection.

I can't wait for the effect on the TOS Prime novels...

Glancing over at Hairrison, Kirk wondered if the competent-yet-uninspired officer would ever amount to anything. Maybe in another life...

[Therin of Andor]

Pondslider wrote:

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Zod was a character from the comics long before Superman 2 though.

Sure, but as a former child viewer of TV's "The Adventures of Superman", and only an occasional comic reader, I'd never heard of Zod. He may as well have been an extra.

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote:

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I can't wait for the effect on the TOS Prime novels...

"When the Enterprise staged a raid against a Romulan space station in orbit of Levaeri V in 2275, Harrison was one of the hundred-odd crewpeople chosen to participate. Harrison had to be helped along in the push through the station as he was injured early on in the fighting." (TOS - Rihannsu novel: My Enemy, My Ally)

[Pondslider]

Therin of Andor wrote:

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Sure, but as a former child viewer of TV's "The Adventures of Superman", and only an occasional comic reader, I'd never heard of Zod. He may as well have been an extra.

Not having heard of a character is a lot different than building a movie around a "character" that was nothing more than name and a shirt at his most fleshed out.

[urbandk]

I expect to be wrong about all of this of course, but...

GATT2000 could be a cyborg augment who is dedicated to bringing back Khan. Harrison could be a sleeper augment or clone of Khan who is activated in the film. As far as TOS Harrison goes, he might have been the same clone but never activated or never known who he actually was.

[The Wormhole]

Bishop76 wrote:

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Has anyone ID'd who Weller is playing yet?

All we know about Weller is that he is a "CEO type" with his own starship.

My personal theory is that he's Commander Starfleet.

[trekkiebaggio]

Bishop76 wrote:

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Has anyone ID'd who Weller is playing yet?

Nope, he was said to be playing someone in charge of a CEO wasn't he? I've read some speculation that Harrison could be a Section 31 agent, if that organisation is involved I could imagine Peter Weller being the head of it, or at least a major player. Abrams does like the government conspiracies doesn't he. Hey, maybe they even discover the Botany Bay and revive Khan, which could be the tease for the third film.

[urbandk]

I think you're on to something with the Section 31 angle. In the trailer, Harrison says the peace the Federation enjoys is a comforting illusion. Perhaps Section 31 has "bought" that peace at a high price, perhaps by secretly employing augments etc. I don't think TrekMovie was wrong to claim that the character is Khan months ago. I strongly suspect there is a Khan/Harrison connection.