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Old December 9 2012, 12:21 AM   #1831
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I get what you're saying. I actually didn't mind ME3 starting off with the Reapers conquering Earth; I thought that was a pretty effective way to open the game, even if the way they got Shepard there was kind of awkward and didn't fit the lore. My complaint was more the way the game treated it afterward. And I know that they had the Reapers take the Citadel to Earth for the same reason, but again they had to ignore both logic and their own universe's lore to accomplish that feat, which just ruins any sense of "not in my backyard" for me.
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Old December 9 2012, 12:28 AM   #1832
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Re: Mass Effect 3

ME3 certainly had its problems - particularly the unaltered original ending which ignored more logic and lore of their own universe than any other aspect of the game - but overall it was a very good experience and an emotionally satisfying story in almost every way (except again for the original ending). I guess to me the main story plot fell off the rails when they changed the direction of the story after losing several writers but what they lost in their main story focus was still executed nearly perfectly in their character focus.
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Old December 9 2012, 12:31 AM   #1833
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
and the vast majority of the human population still lives there,
That right there would be enough reason for a non Earth born Shepard to care, not to mention any family that would be living there as well.

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
even if the way they got Shepard there was kind of awkward and didn't fit the lore.


I take it you didn't play the Arrival then.

but again they had to ignore both logic and their own universe's lore to accomplish that feat, which just ruins any sense of "not in my backyard" for me.
What in the universe specifically states they couldn't drag the Citadel with them?
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Old December 9 2012, 01:13 AM   #1834
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Bishop76 wrote: View Post
I guess to me the main story plot fell off the rails when they changed the direction of the story after losing several writers but what they lost in their main story focus was still executed nearly perfectly in their character focus.
That's the problem - I don't think they HAD main story focus. They apparently hadn't nailed down the motivations and backstory for the Reapers by the time ME3's script was started, because they toyed around with Drew Karpshyn's nonsensical dark energy plot, then cobbled together the basics of the "machines kill organics to keep them from being killed by machines" ends we got. Hell, Mass Effect 2 and 3 are at their most coherent when the Reapers aren't really the main focus of the story.
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Old December 9 2012, 01:24 AM   #1835
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Re: Mass Effect 3

bullethead wrote: View Post
That's the problem - I don't think they HAD main story focus. They apparently hadn't nailed down the motivations and backstory for the Reapers by the time ME3's script was started, because they toyed around with Drew Karpshyn's nonsensical dark energy plot, then cobbled together the basics of the "machines kill organics to keep them from being killed by machines" ends we got. Hell, Mass Effect 2 and 3 are at their most coherent when the Reapers aren't really the main focus of the story.
I think they had enough with Karpyshyn's basic outline to at least have made that a sensical plot. I don't disagree that the ultimate reason for the Reapers existing was badly flawed and it's the reason there was so much irritation at the ending of the game. That said, it was still a phenomenal game on a lot of different levels. The Quarian/Geth wrap-up was satisfying, the Tuchanka plot was satisfying, almost every character arc wrapped up satisfactorily... it was just the complete bed shitting finale that tainted the rest of the game. I always say that ME3 was a 10/10 until the ending.
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Old December 9 2012, 02:53 AM   #1836
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Re: Mass Effect 3

I've been replaying the whole trilogy, slowly but surely, from start to finish. Just got back up to ME3, and I'm disgusted but not surprised to find that they still haven't fixed the face import bug. Sloppy, even for EA.

At this point they've pretty much guaranteed that the next Mass Effect game, if I get it, will be after it's in the bargain bin.
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Old December 9 2012, 04:15 AM   #1837
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
and the vast majority of the human population still lives there,
That right there would be enough reason for a non Earth born Shepard to care, not to mention any family that would be living there as well.
I never said that Shepard shouldn't care, just that the way the game was written made Shepard act like he/she cared more about it than his/her own homeworld.
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
even if the way they got Shepard there was kind of awkward and didn't fit the lore.


I take it you didn't play the Arrival then.
I did. They ignored their own lore by having Shepard go back to Earth to face a hearing over his part in the destruction of the Bahak system. The Alliance isn't based on Earth; it's based on Arcturus Station. That's where Shepard should have been ordered to go.
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
but again they had to ignore both logic and their own universe's lore to accomplish that feat, which just ruins any sense of "not in my backyard" for me.
What in the universe specifically states they couldn't drag the Citadel with them?
Nothing, as far as I can recall. That's not what I was referring to. They ignored the fact that the Citadel is the nexus of the galactic relay system and the Reapers could have simply shut down the entire network, thereby crippling the organic resistance. They had no need to bring the Citadel to Earth "for protection" because the organics would have never been able to threaten it had the writers remembered how their own universe worked.
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Old December 9 2012, 05:00 AM   #1838
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Re: Mass Effect 3

-Brett- wrote: View Post
I've been replaying the whole trilogy, slowly but surely, from start to finish. Just got back up to ME3, and I'm disgusted but not surprised to find that they still haven't fixed the face import bug. Sloppy, even for EA.
I thought they had. What platform are you playing on, and if it's PC, have you actually installed the newest patch?
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Old December 9 2012, 07:53 AM   #1839
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Re: Mass Effect 3

ATimson wrote: View Post
-Brett- wrote: View Post
I've been replaying the whole trilogy, slowly but surely, from start to finish. Just got back up to ME3, and I'm disgusted but not surprised to find that they still haven't fixed the face import bug. Sloppy, even for EA.
I thought they had. What platform are you playing on, and if it's PC, have you actually installed the newest patch?
360, and all three games are up to date.

To be fair, one of my three Shepards is coming through from ME2 okay. Or near enough. So maybe they fixed it, just not very well.
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Old December 9 2012, 02:09 PM   #1840
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
I never said that Shepard shouldn't care, just that the way the game was written made Shepard act like he/she cared more about it than his/her own homeworld.
They probably did it because only one Shepard type has a homeworld other than earth as the space born one lived on ships and stations.

I did. They ignored their own lore by having Shepard go back to Earth to face a hearing over his part in the destruction of the Bahak system. The Alliance isn't based on Earth; it's based on Arcturus Station. That's where Shepard should have been ordered to go.
And why would they have Shepard's hearing on Arcturus Station other than the fact that its the Alliance's capital, seems weird to only do things like that in one place only.

They ignored the fact that the Citadel is the nexus of the galactic relay system and the Reapers could have simply shut down the entire network, thereby crippling the organic resistance. They had no need to bring the Citadel to Earth "for protection" because the organics would have never been able to threaten it had the writers remembered how their own universe worked.
Well except for the whole being reliant on the Keepers to do their bidding seeing as there probably aren't any manual controls that are Reaper sized and seeing as the Protheans made sure the Keepers would ignore signals from the Reapers thats kind of hard to do.
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Old December 9 2012, 02:16 PM   #1841
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I did. They ignored their own lore by having Shepard go back to Earth to face a hearing over his part in the destruction of the Bahak system. The Alliance isn't based on Earth; it's based on Arcturus Station. That's where Shepard should have been ordered to go.
And why would they have Shepard's hearing on Arcturus Station other than the fact that its the Alliance's capital, seems weird to only do things like that in one place only.
Um, wouldn't it make more sense to have his hearing in a place where the Alliance actually has some kind of authority? The Alliance is an extrasolar governing body, Earth itself is still divided by nation-states with their own sovereign governments. Yet ME3 makes it look like Earth is the capital of the Alliance.
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
They ignored the fact that the Citadel is the nexus of the galactic relay system and the Reapers could have simply shut down the entire network, thereby crippling the organic resistance. They had no need to bring the Citadel to Earth "for protection" because the organics would have never been able to threaten it had the writers remembered how their own universe worked.
Well except for the whole being reliant on the Keepers to do their bidding seeing as there probably aren't any manual controls that are Reaper sized and seeing as the Protheans made sure the Keepers would ignore signals from the Reapers thats kind of hard to do.
Right, but remember the first game? The one where the whole plot was about Saren getting Sovereign to the Citadel so that it could override the Protheans' sabotage and manually open up the mass relay in dark space? If the Reapers take control of the Citadel (which, somehow, they did in ME3), why would they suddenly forget that whole idea and give the organics any sort of chance at traversing the relay network and continuing their organized resistance?

I'm only asking because it feels like BioWare kind of forgot about what happened in the first game, too.
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Old December 9 2012, 03:09 PM   #1842
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hanukkah Solo wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
I did. They ignored their own lore by having Shepard go back to Earth to face a hearing over his part in the destruction of the Bahak system. The Alliance isn't based on Earth; it's based on Arcturus Station. That's where Shepard should have been ordered to go.
And why would they have Shepard's hearing on Arcturus Station other than the fact that its the Alliance's capital, seems weird to only do things like that in one place only.
Um, wouldn't it make more sense to have his hearing in a place where the Alliance actually has some kind of authority? The Alliance is an extrasolar governing body, Earth itself is still divided by nation-states with their own sovereign governments. Yet ME3 makes it look like Earth is the capital of the Alliance.
Of course considering Arcturus was blow up rather quickly that might be why they went with Earth.

Also Mass Effect 3 did treat Arcturus as the Alliance's capital while explaining why most of its government was dead from the afore mentioned being blown up.

Besides as mentioned already in the thread the audience is more likely to identify with Earth more than a space station that gets mentioned a few times in the games.

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
They ignored the fact that the Citadel is the nexus of the galactic relay system and the Reapers could have simply shut down the entire network, thereby crippling the organic resistance. They had no need to bring the Citadel to Earth "for protection" because the organics would have never been able to threaten it had the writers remembered how their own universe worked.
Well except for the whole being reliant on the Keepers to do their bidding seeing as there probably aren't any manual controls that are Reaper sized and seeing as the Protheans made sure the Keepers would ignore signals from the Reapers thats kind of hard to do.
Right, but remember the first game? The one where the whole plot was about Saren getting Sovereign to the Citadel so that it could override the Protheans' sabotage and manually open up the mass relay in dark space? If the Reapers take control of the Citadel (which, somehow, they did in ME3), why would they suddenly forget that whole idea and give the organics any sort of chance at traversing the relay network and continuing their organized resistance?
Probably because fans bitching about the game effectively being lost would way out number the complaints of fans who care that much about continuity.

Honestly I think your question can be summed up with because their would be no game otherwise.

Besides did you look at the galaxy map before going back to Earth, because it looks like the Reapers are already crawling all other the galaxy at that point they probably didn't even care anymore by then.
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Old December 9 2012, 03:30 PM   #1843
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Honestly I think your question can be summed up with because their would be no game otherwise.
That's not a good excuse for ignoring the main plot of the first game.

I wonder if they're going to release some sort of 10th Anniversary Special Here's What Really Happened And Oh Remember Those RPG Elements We Had At One Point Say Goodbye To Them edition of the first game to bring it into line with the second two.
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Old December 9 2012, 03:32 PM   #1844
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Re: Mass Effect 3

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Honestly I think your question can be summed up with because their would be no game otherwise.
I'd rather have no game than a game with stupid writing that ignores both logic and what came before.

If your plot requires both you and the players forgetting the plot of the first game in the series, you should probably go back to the drawing board.
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Old December 9 2012, 05:05 PM   #1845
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Re: Mass Effect 3

ATimson wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Honestly I think your question can be summed up with because their would be no game otherwise.
That's not a good excuse for ignoring the main plot of the first game.
Actually, yes, "because there would be no story otherwise" is always a perfectly good reason to ignore plot points.
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