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Old December 8 2012, 04:55 AM   #16
Minuet
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

Santa Kang wrote: View Post
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Santa Kang wrote: View Post
Or they base it on their knowledge or research of similar real life institutions.
I agree. The point I was trying to convey is the fact that only a handful of things were ever set in stone when Gene Roddenberry laid ground rules, and even those things have been bent and broken on occasion. Many of the inconsistencies have been caused by writer error and/or bad fact checking, or even, on unfortunate occasion, blatant disregard for continuity. But that's our favorite show for you.
GR was more than happy to break his own "ground rules". The first season of TOS was full of retcons, resets and re-imaginings. Nothing was set in stone till they found something that worked. Truth is fans are a lot more concerned with continuity than writers and producers.
Definitely agreed. Still, you know...it's always fun to nitpick.
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Old December 8 2012, 05:12 AM   #17
Minuet
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

Okay, so, another minor stick in the spokes comes during DS9, when Bashir mentions that O'Brien went to Starfleet Academy at some point. Memory Alpha mentions that Ronald D. Moore openly admits this is a mistake, but says you can choose to rationalize it in that the enlisted training programs take place at Starfleet Academy, which apparently is also backed up by statements in TNG's "The Drumhead." I can buy that.
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Old December 8 2012, 05:15 AM   #18
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

There's also the fact that in order to support a Starfleet the size of which we've seen, they need more than one "academy" to create that many officers. Yet we only ever hear of the academy in San Francisco. There are a few smaller schools, but they seem to be annexes rather than separate schools.
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Old December 8 2012, 05:18 AM   #19
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

tighr wrote: View Post
There's also the fact that in order to support a Starfleet the size of which we've seen, they need more than one "academy" to create that many officers. Yet we only ever hear of the academy in San Francisco. There are a few smaller schools, but they seem to be annexes rather than separate schools.
Do we know how large the Academy is?
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Old December 8 2012, 05:19 AM   #20
Tiberius
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

Minuet wrote: View Post
I don't see myself as remotely pig-like, unless I'm eating macaroni and cheese with bacon sprinkled on top...
Cannibalism?
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Old December 8 2012, 05:21 AM   #21
Nerys Myk
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
tighr wrote: View Post
There's also the fact that in order to support a Starfleet the size of which we've seen, they need more than one "academy" to create that many officers. Yet we only ever hear of the academy in San Francisco. There are a few smaller schools, but they seem to be annexes rather than separate schools.
Do we know how large the Academy is?
It's the entire San Francisco Bay Area. The computer science department takes up most of the Santa Clara Valley.
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Old December 8 2012, 05:27 AM   #22
Minuet
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Minuet wrote: View Post
I don't see myself as remotely pig-like, unless I'm eating macaroni and cheese with bacon sprinkled on top...
Cannibalism?
Good catch. I try to generally not promote cannibalism, but sometimes it slips out.
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Old December 8 2012, 07:11 AM   #23
CorporalClegg
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

tighr wrote: View Post
There's also the fact that in order to support a Starfleet the size of which we've seen, they need more than one "academy" to create that many officers. Yet we only ever hear of the academy in San Francisco. There are a few smaller schools, but they seem to be annexes rather than separate schools.
It doesn't have to be as long as Starfleet has some kind of OCS program. But, and I've brought this up several times in the past, there's never been any indication that it does.

Bones is a good example. He went to Ol' Miss and then went on to medical school. If he were to join the modern navy, all he'd have to do is enroll in OCS. But instead he went to the Academy.

I can understand where a Starfleet training program would have to be slightly more involved than just the basic military training of today's programs, but you'd have to think that a 24C degree in astrophysics from MIT or CalTech is just as good as the one you'd get from the Academy. No reason to go back and learn all that over again.
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Old December 8 2012, 07:55 AM   #24
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

My assumption is that people with advanced degrees aren't going to the academy to get a duplicate degree but to learn whats expected of a Starfleet officer and also train to serve aboard a starship and out in space. McCoy, in ST09, was operating a bridge station in the KM test. Possibly the science station since he noted the presence of the Klingons and the status of their shields. Starfleet's OCS is much more intensive and not geared to turning out 90 day wonders.
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Old December 8 2012, 08:22 AM   #25
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

In our modern military, every recruit goes though basic training, aka boot camp. Some go back to finish college in ROTC, some go to OCS, and regular enlisted go to advanced training in their assigned fields. It's probably no more complicated in Starfleet.
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Old December 8 2012, 10:17 AM   #26
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

tighr wrote: View Post
There's also the fact that in order to support a Starfleet the size of which we've seen, they need more than one "academy" to create that many officers. Yet we only ever hear of the academy in San Francisco. There are a few smaller schools, but they seem to be annexes rather than separate schools.
There have been other Starfleet academies in the novels going back to the 80's.

LobsterAfternoon wrote:
Do we know how large the Academy is?
It never quite looks the same or stays in the same place.

Here's a totally over-the-top analysis of Starfleet and the academy's ever-changing appearence and location, with maps!: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/in..._buildings.htm
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Old December 8 2012, 06:54 PM   #27
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

Sorry, should've been more clear. I meant do we know how large the Academy is in terms of enrollment, not geography. I can't think of any scenes in regular Trek where we see large amounts of cadets (usually just a few walking around campus). Trek 09 has the scene with Kirk getting taken to task over cheating, but we don't know if all the cadets in that auditorium are A) the entire student body of the school, B) all the students in Kirk's year C) any other random grouping of students.
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Old December 8 2012, 07:13 PM   #28
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Trek 09 has the scene with Kirk getting taken to task over cheating, but we don't know if all the cadets in that auditorium are A) the entire student body of the school, B) all the students in Kirk's year C) any other random grouping of students.
If starfleet were truely large, even huge, in terms of personnel, then the people we see there could just be the ones in Kirk's form or class of cadet. One of their own stands accused, and they're all required to be in attendance. There looks to be around a thousand people in the seats.

If starfleet academy is a four year institution, and they graduated one class a month (48 separate classes on campus at a time), and there is a ten percent wash-out rate, they would graduate and commission approximately eleven thousand new officers per year.

That would replace officers retiring, resigning, discharges and dying each year. Plus any expansion on starfleet's part.


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Old December 8 2012, 07:19 PM   #29
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

I think they only have one Starfleet Academy, and while Starfleet is large, lets not forget that other then in times of war, we not only don't see a lot of deaths, but Starfleet officers may serve for nearly a century. With that, unlike the military, its possible to stay in the same grade (rank) for decades. In the alternate world where Picard never got stabbed in the chest, wasn't he just a junior officer still. He was allowed to advance very slowly over a what, 40 year period? For some Starfleet is a life choice that they do for decades.

Lets not forget we are trying to impose some of our own beliefs on this world. Plus, if we even assume that Starfleet was a thousand ship strong, with an average crew compliment of 500 (which is over estimating) then thats only 500,000 line personnel. Add another 500,000 thousand for support and starbases and we have a million Starfleet personnel. Its really not a lot of people (well, it is, but not as much as some of us like to believe).

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Old December 8 2012, 08:44 PM   #30
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Re: OK, How Does Starfleet Academy Work Exactly?

Plus we don't know that every ship/starbase/facility has the same ratio of officers/enlisted as our hero ships do. For instance, we saw that DS9/the Defiant seemed to have a lot more non-coms than the various Enterprises. Maybe Enterprises (which are often considered flagships) get a large number of freshly minted ensigns/decorated lieutenants & commanders while the average ship has a more balanced mix. That would allow for a smaller Academy.
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