RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,091
Posts: 5,399,187
Members: 24,735
Currently online: 411
Newest member: extremedalek

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

City on the Edge of Forever #3 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

TV Alert: Shatner TNG Documentary
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Forbes Cast In Powers
By: T'Bonz on Aug 22


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 7 2012, 06:50 AM   #1
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Starfleet non-coms

We know that most, if not all, officers attended Starfleet Academy. But what of the lower ranks? Memory Alpha states the Academy does have an enlisted program, so that's one route. Are there others?

There doesn't seem to be a mandatory conscription or draft system in effect.

Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 07:09 AM   #2
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?
Probably that. They also might recruit at high schools like the services in the modern day US do. ( or did when I was a kid)
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 07:19 AM   #3
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Starfleet non-coms

I suppose some sort of Civilian Defense Organization also exists, which could have some sort of transfer program. And a similar arrangement with whatever authority governs industrial/commercial shipping fleets.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 08:22 AM   #4
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Memory Alpha states the Academy does have an enlisted program, so that's one route.
...This basically solely because Chief O'Brien was once referred to as having taken a course at the Academy, in "Trials and Tribble-ations", despite being established as a non-com in incidental dialogue and explicit plotlines (and some costuming ambiguities notwithstanding).

But the reference was not made by the man himself - it was made in jest by the flippant Julian Bashir. It reads like this:

"Come on, Chief, surely you took elementary temporal mechanics at the Academy?"
The actual implication is that the Chief did not take elementary temporal mechanics at the Academy. Whether he even went to the Academy (for this single course, or for anything else) is highly doubtful as well.

On the other hand, this is how O'Brien describes his joining Starfleet in "Shadowplay":

"...two days before I was due to leave [for the Aldebaran Music Academy], I went into town and signed up for Starfleet."
Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 08:37 AM   #5
Spike730
Captain
 
Spike730's Avatar
 
Location: Austria
Re: Starfleet non-coms

The Starfleet Technical Services Academy on Mars seems to be a training facility for enlisted personnel.
Spike730 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 08:47 AM   #6
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Starfleet non-coms

So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 02:26 PM   #7
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Melakon wrote: View Post
Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.
The only non-coms we really have any background on are Chief O'Brien and Simon Tarses. Chief O'Brien, as mentioned above joined Starfleet to avoid going to a music academy. Simon Tarses wanted to go into space, but didn't want to spend four years in a classroom first, so he went the enlisted route.

Really, I think you'll find similar reasons for everyone who serves in Starfleet in the enlisted ranks. For whatever reasons they aren't interested in an extra four years of education (college/university isn't for everyone) and starship command isn't one of their career goals anyway. Obviously, not very many people have this mindset given how few non-coms we've seen compared to how many officers there are.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 08:28 PM   #8
Gotham Central
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Chicago, IL
View Gotham Central's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet non-coms

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
Could commercial or private schools be offering some sort of vocational degree meeting those requirements? Do you just walk in off the street at the corner Starfleet Recruiting Office?

I have no military experience at all, so I'm trying to figure how they convince civilians to enlist. Let's assume they don't always send out a ship captain to rescue you from a bar fight.
The only non-coms we really have any background on are Chief O'Brien and Simon Tarses. Chief O'Brien, as mentioned above joined Starfleet to avoid going to a music academy. Simon Tarses wanted to go into space, but didn't want to spend four years in a classroom first, so he went the enlisted route.

Really, I think you'll find similar reasons for everyone who serves in Starfleet in the enlisted ranks. For whatever reasons they aren't interested in an extra four years of education (college/university isn't for everyone) and starship command isn't one of their career goals anyway. Obviously, not very many people have this mindset given how few non-coms we've seen compared to how many officers there are.

Well we've seen lots of people referred to as "crewman" over the years. Yeomen also appear to have been enlisted personnel as well (they wore no rank designation).

What we saw of the entry process in SFA on TNG certainly reinforces the idea that it was REALLY difficult to get in (though I seriously don't see either Tom Paris nor Be'lanna and Nog passing an entrance process THAT difficult). What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation. It would also make sense for there to be recruitment centers as well. for NCOs

One I could also see Starfleet doing outreach to technical/specialist schools in each of the sciences. Starfleet has WAY too many technical/scientific specialists for them all to have attended SFA. Its possible that once Starfleet started allowing civilians to serve on starships that the number of NCOs dropped. That would explain why you saw fewer NCOs on TNG. When the Borg incursions and Dominion War forced Starfleet to put an end to that policy, you likely saw more NCOs. If I recall correctly most of O'Brien's engineering team on the Defiant were NCOs.
__________________
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia

Green Day
Gotham Central is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 08:59 PM   #9
Drago-Kazov
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Melakon wrote: View Post
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"
In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.
Drago-Kazov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7 2012, 09:04 PM   #10
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Starfleet non-coms

why is this a complicated issue? People probably enlist in Starfleet for the same reason they do in the Navy-career opportunities, travel opportunities, a desire to serve, a chance at adventure, etc.

I'd imagine they have recruiting facilities just like they do now.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2012, 01:03 AM   #11
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"
In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.
Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2012, 02:23 AM   #12
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Gotham Central wrote: View Post
What I could see though is something like a Starfleet version of ROTC at universities across the Federation.
You'd think so, but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco. Seriously, there was a thread a while back where we went through the characters we know the training background of, and an overwhemingly high percentage are confirmed as graduates of the Academy.

Santa Kang wrote: View Post
Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
So open walk-ins could account for a lot of lower ranks. And most of the people in Starfleet seem to love it, regardless of their position. No one seems to be hoping for the day next week when his committment expires. Except guest characters in a war zone who get killed in the last act.

And Federation public schools probably have Starfleet recruiting commercials running all day in the halls. "Sure, Federation life is good! But with Starfleet, life can be better!"
In which episode did we see Rom and his colleagues who worked in the sewage department or something? They did not look like motivated workers.
Rom isn't in Starfleet or a Federation citizen. He doesn't even live in Federation space.
I think what Drago-Kazov is referring to is the DS9 episode The Assignment in which Rom is transferred to the station's engineering swing shift. The Starfleet officers among this shift don't share his enthusiam for the job.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2012, 02:59 AM   #13
Melakon
Vice Admiral
 
Melakon's Avatar
 
Location: Unmarked grave, Ekos
Re: Starfleet non-coms

Admittedly there would be a few griping about the real nasty daily jobs. Not everyone would be proud of becoming Permanent Latrine Orderly like Will Stockdale in No Time For Sergeants.
__________________
Moe: I'll take the blonde!
Larry: I'll take the brunette!
Curly: I'll take the Black and Tan!
--Wee Wee Monsieur (1938)
Melakon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2012, 03:32 PM   #14
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Starfleet non-coms

sonak wrote: View Post
why is this a complicated issue? People probably enlist in Starfleet for the same reason they do in the Navy-career opportunities, travel opportunities, a desire to serve, a chance at adventure, etc.

I'd imagine they have recruiting facilities just like they do now.
Same here.

I always imagined there were a number of basic training centers--or boot camps--located throughout the Federation with perhaps some advanced training at the Academy or other facilities.
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8 2012, 04:31 PM   #15
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet non-coms

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
but the general implication is that all officers are graduates of Starfleet Academy in San Fransisco.
That isn't the impression I got from TOS, only a few mentioned attending the academy. Kirk, Mitchell, and Merik (sp?). The other officers might have gotten their commissions through something like OTS, ROTC, etc.. There are a few pieces of dialog suggesting that Spock didn't attend the academy, same with McCoy.

And one episode suggests that Uhura might have been a mustang, she was enlisted prior to being an officer.


T'Girl is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.