Villainous relations? [SPOILERS]

[ChristopherPike]

teacake wrote:

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You believe Sybok over Khan?

I think Khan was always a non-starter. Mentioning the possibility just fuels the hype.

Those involved in the Abramsverse, whether long-time fans or who became interested along the way to the first film, are likely weary of simply remaking "Space Seed" or Star Trek II TWOK. Particularly the latter because it's a classic. Even stealing from both, and making a halfway between the two would lack imagination.

I think common sense tells you Benedict Cumberbatch is playing Ricardo Montalban's part. The Abramsverse recasting has otherwise been fairly true to the originals for that.

Khan-like, I think. Or somebody from Starfleet, perhaps a Captain like Garth from a different earlier era - instead of learning how to shapechange (as in TOS), he's somehow been given above normal strength.

[Dukhat]

So Cumberbatch uses the word "family" (without even knowing the context), and that's complete justification that he's Sybok? Ridiculous. Never mind the fact that 1.) Sybok in TFF was not any kind of evil or murderous gun-toting killer, and 2.) using a character from one of the most reviled Trek movies in Trekkie history would not have been my first choice were I Damon Lindeloff or Alex Kurtzman.

Oh, and Cumberbatch's ears aren't pointed. That's like, you know, a dead giveaway.

[ChristopherPike]

The Enterprise crew are Kirk's family now clearly. Cumberbatch's villain is simply threatening the Captain, questioning how far he'll have to sacrifice his morality in order to stop him and keep them save, and so forth... I expect.

I don't really read that as the bad guy being related to Kirk, or Spock, or whoever else, myself.

Maybe I'm not reading enough into it. Usually I'm pretty good at reading far too much into what's not there!

Wanting vengeance might not be personal, as in against a particular individual. Perhaps it's against the whole of Starfleet. Maybe he's got it in for the whole organisation.

[DarKush]

I don't think it's Sybok. The first movie featured a villain with a personal animus against Spock. Granted Sybok did not have a personal beef with Spock in Final Frontier, but obviously this guy in the trailer is malevolent whereas Sybok had been misguided.

With the mention of family, I'm thinking it's George Samuel Kirk. His scenes were cut from the first movie, but I don't recall them saying Kirk was an only child-it's been a long time since I saw the movie-but that doesn't stick out as something that was said.

I think it's personal for Kirk this time and what could more personal than fighting your brother? Other than that I'm guessing Gary Mitchell, Finnegan, or Janice Lester-hey, she found any earlier host.

[RoJoHen]

ChristopherPike wrote:

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The Enterprise crew are Kirk's family now clearly. Cumberbatch's villain is simply threatening the Captain, questioning how far he'll have to sacrifice his morality in order to stop him and keep them save, and so forth... I expect.

I don't really read that as the bad guy being related to Kirk, or Spock, or whoever, myself.

I think you're probably right. I think Cumberbatch might be talking his character's family (like how Nero's motivations were related to saving his wife) and asking how far Kirk would go to save his own.

[The Keeper]

AJBlue98 wrote:

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What other thread?

Whoops! I was 'thinking out loud', not realizing I was typing my thoughts. Sorry.

[M'Sharak]

Ghost of Christmas Future wrote:

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I thought we had to keep all comments on the other thread?

No, no one said that. Another thread was closed because it really didn't offer much topic for discussion - something that thread-starter had been asked not to do. This thread here does not suffer that failing and is just fine.

[Harbinger]

Posted this in the other thread, but will repost it here.

At a promotional junket for Dredd, Karl Urban looks to have let slip to SFX who Benedict Cumberbatch is playing in the forthcoming Star Trek sequel. When asked what it was like having the Sherlock actor on set, Urban said:

“He’s awesome, he’s a great addition, and I think his Gary Mitchell is going to be exemplary.”

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/07/09/star...lain-revealed/

[Kelso]

I think it is clear at this point that Cumberbatch is playing the dude who chewed Nero's ear off.

[AJBlue98]

You know, relying on characters’ motivations to try to decipher who would or wouldn’t do what to whom really doesn’t make much sense in this instance. This is true not only because the new film takes place in a rebooted universe, but because the whole timeline has been moved up about ten years.

Look at Spock’s decision to put Kirk off the ship in Star Trek (2009). I cannot fathom a situation in which Leonard Nimoy’s Spock would have stranded another Starfleet officer in that situation, even after witnessing the death of his mother and his home planet. But this is a younger Spock who grew up in a universe so completely paranoid they built the Enterprise into a dreadnaught, not just a cruiser, and in which humans have brawls in bars, when Gene Roddenberry strictly forbade any animosity between humans in the prime timeline.

This also is a universe in which Robert April never had a thing to do with the Enterprise (unless by some future feat of retroactive continuity, he supervised her construction,) and in which due to the Nero mission, Pike’s captaincy lasted about a week. Now Jim Kirk is captain of the Enterprise a decade early.

Kirk missed out on his time on the U.S.S. Republic and the opportunity to rat out Ben Finney. He’s also had no time as tactical officer on the U.S.S. Farragut. Chris Pine’s Kirk never will be the man Bill Shatner played, and it will be at least another decade in the universe’s storyline before any of the possible villains in this piece can possibly be the same people we know from the original series.

Khan, Gary Mitchell, Gary Seven, Ben Finney, Kodos the Executioner: regardless of which of these villains (or what other villain) makes it onto the screen in Star Trek Into Darkness, that character will say and do things no Star Trek villain ever said or did — or likely would have been capable of saying or doing — before.

As for Sybok, clearly from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, the whackadoo’s sufficiently old that his embrace of emotion must go back far enough to have predated the U.S.S. Kelvin’s encounter with the Narada. In fact, I remind myself that since Vulcans have double or triple the lifespan of a human, it’s altogether likely that Sybok is several decades older than Spock. And due to Vulcans’ slower apparent aging process, Sybok may have been an adult by the time of the Kelvin’s destruction yet still look relatively young by the time Star Trek Into Darkness’ story begins, or at least if they do, they don’t advertise it to each other.

As for the ear-thing, it seems pretty obvious to me that Starfleet types don’t go around introducing themselves by announcing their respective species. Yes, if Sybok entered the academy, his Vulcan heritage would be part of his record, and any non-Vulcan who found out would be curious about his lifestyle choice. But the Star Trek universe always has been one in which people just don’t go nosing around in other people’s business, even if in this new iteration they do disagree as individuals a bit more strenuously.

Additionally, Sybok would be outcast by his Vulcan countrymen. So I see no logical reason why Vulcan members of Starfleet would want to bring attention to Sybok’s dishonor by waving it in other officers’ faces. If anything, I would imagine that they would work most diligently to ignore him, even going so far as quietly redirecting any interest from other students who find out.

So do I honestly believe Cumberbatch could be playing Sybok? Sure. Sybok can’t be the same person we met in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier. Whatever other villain may be in this movie simply cannot be the same person he was in whatever incarnation of Star Trek he previously appeared. And Kirk and Spock already are demonstrably different people from the characters played by Shatner and Nimoy. Psychological profiling just won’t help this time, folks; all such bets are off.

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Oh God, please help. I just wrote a semiformal essay for fun.

[teacake]

AJBlue98 wrote:

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As for the ear-thing, it seems pretty obvious to me that Starfleet types don’t go around introducing themselves by announcing their respective species. Yes, if Sybok entered the academy, his Vulcan heritage would be part of his record, and any non-Vulcan who found out would be curious about his lifestyle choice. But the Star Trek universe always has been one in which people just don’t go nosing around in other people’s business, even if in this new iteration they do disagree as individuals a bit more strenuously.

But what does this have to do with him not having pointy ears?

[Pondslider]

I want to see Sybok's birth certificate and Starfleet Academy Records. That will solve it.

[AJBlue98]

teacake wrote:

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But what does this have to do with him not having pointy ears?

The aforementioned “ear thing” is a reference to the fact that some in this thread have taken umbrage with my suggestion that Sybok may have had plastic surgery to remove the points of his ears, for what as-yet-unknown purpose I cannot say. Having done so and yet remaining a Vulcan in all other physiological respects would be quite remarkable and therefore could become a subject for discussion among Starfleet’s personnel. Of course, he would not introduce himself by saying, “hi, I'm Sybok. I'm a Vulcan but I’ve got round ears. Am I not cool?” And since people tend to respect each other’s privacy in the Star Trek universe, my argument here is basically that Cumberbatch’s having round ears in the trailer doesn’t necessarily preclude him playing Sybok.

[teacake]

So if he is not disguising himself as a human what would be the reason for JJ not to have him with pointy ears? Disguise, sure. Otherwise it makes no sense.

[Melakon]

teacake wrote:

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But what does this have to do with him not having pointy ears?

And shaved eyebrows?