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Old December 2 2012, 02:32 AM   #31
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

At this point, I don't know why those truss need to be there. On one hand, they do have fantastical materials in TOS, on the other hand, the interior rooms like the cabin, briefing room, and engine room all contain some type of visible framework.

Perhaps the truss functions as part of the framework to keep the corridors "stiff" in the same way the other rooms have their frames and braces? Or they are physical bridges carrying circuits from one section to the other since it seems like on the TOS Enterprise all the pipes and circuits run inside a wall or under the truss (the pipes) and the floor itself seems rather thin (or has nothing running below it.)
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Old December 2 2012, 04:40 AM   #32
Albertese
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
At this point, I don't know why those truss need to be there. On one hand, they do have fantastical materials in TOS, on the other hand, the interior rooms like the cabin, briefing room, and engine room all contain some type of visible framework.

Perhaps the truss functions as part of the framework to keep the corridors "stiff" in the same way the other rooms have their frames and braces? Or they are physical bridges carrying circuits from one section to the other since it seems like on the TOS Enterprise all the pipes and circuits run inside a wall or under the truss (the pipes) and the floor itself seems rather thin (or has nothing running below it.)

I agree with this completely. I assume the actual deck between the floor of one deck and the ceiling of the deck below to be just a few inches thick and the artificial gravity is produced by plating contained therein. Piping and wiring conduits would be located in walls (which tend to be super thick...in fact to contain the stagehands who operate the doors, but in-universe, I assume to accommodate utilities that the floors are too thin for.)

The trusses are IMHO the skeletal structure of the ship. Piping and wiring is run mainly around the corridors so the trusses appear somewhat bulkier over the corridor as they cover piping which runs into the walls but not along the trusses in the individual cabins and compartments.

Why the funny wavy Mylar panels? I say it's decoration pure and simple. Blssdwlf makes a good point when he says that if these are the gravity generators, why does every other area lack this kind of device? But, I would also point out two other data points. The shuttlecraft is a compact enough vehicle, that it must use some sort of gravity plating as I have described above. (And is described in numerous non-canon works of technical fiction.) There's no reason a similar system wouldn't be in use aboard the mothership. Also, we see the same wavy Mylar patterned panels in other places, most notably the transporter chamber. Some have suggested that this is some sort of future-y material/equipment vital to the transporter's use, but we do see transporters which lack it, off the top of my head, the 2-man unit in Mr. Lurry's office in "The Trouble With Tribbles." Also, what mechanical/electronic purpose would the corridor trusses and the walls of the transporter chamber have in common? In real life, it was an exotic looking shower curtain cut to shape and applied to the surfaces to dress them up, and I propose that in-universe, it's basically the same thing.

Also, since we're referencing "In A Mirror Darkly" I would point out that when evil Archer orders the gravity turned up to 20g to crush the "Gorn" we see a plate reading "GRAV GRADIENT PLANE." I posit that since this plate is on the floor, it possibly relates to equipment found within the deck itself.

YMMV

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Old December 2 2012, 11:41 PM   #33
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Albertese wrote: View Post
"Also, since we're referencing "In A Mirror Darkly" I would point out that when evil Archer orders the gravity turned up to 20g to crush the "Gorn" we see a plate reading "GRAV GRADIENT PLANE." I posit that since this plate is on the floor, it possibly relates to equipment found within the deck itself."
...or the position of a truss right below?

I can live without these trusses having any AG function as the environmental guy on the ladder could merely be adjusting the gravity level of such floor plates. Again, if you have "atmospheric system" wall panels for the environmental crew to adjust (which include air and probably heat).

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...ntraphd436.jpg

you have to question what else falls under environmental personnel supervision to explain these ladder booths and/or where to locate AG controls.

Here's Engineering Deck 8 to conclude the current WIP in the engineering hull: https://www.dropbox.com/s/c4hzf4aeih...compressed.jpg

I started this one at the stern because the tri-ladder descent of Scotty and his crew down to the upper starboard engineering level of the Constellation suggested this location:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...hinehd0208.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...hinehd0213.jpg

I felt the height and overhead ceiling of the gymnasium (a re-dress of the engine control room studio set) suggested this room to be somewhere in the engineering hull. I interpreted the overhead illumination in the second gym room to be a helpful clue (it's blue):

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...rliexhd302.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...nwebhd0243.jpg

This is TOS and this blue illumination of the Defiant's "cathedral" tells me that the matter-antimatter reactor(s) / plasma lines are either on Standby or off (same in the ENT episode), so we may be seeing the light of the plasma line running up to the saucer hull behind that upper grid of the gymnasium.

The corridors outside the Auxilary Control Room (ACR) are quite an enigma - as Blssdwlf has recently pointed out in his thread - but I take the shot from Way to Eden as a reference:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...edenhd1214.jpg

A lot of scenes are rather strange. In The Doomsday Machine Kirk and landing party intentionally move to ACR but almost seem to miss it (there's also has to be a second door in the corridor outside used by Scotty).
The scene in The Changeling is even worse. They just leave one of the most deadly mechanical devices unattended in ACR and have a stroll through the (transporter room set) corridor possibly in the vicinity (the script of this episode has some odd moments. Enterprise absorbs the equivalent of 90 photon torpedos but then Kirk wonders how Nomad was able to absorb the energy of 1 photon torpedo "Mr. Spock, there must be damage to your instruments" "No captain, there's heavy damage to this episode's script" and we'll see a fixing attempt once the first motion picture will be produced...)
And according to And the Children Shall Lead the port corridor outside ACR is the circular corridor set (sorry, no chance to keep this deck entirely free from circular corridors ):

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...leadhd1250.jpg

Originally I wanted to keep the corridors here straight and have the turbo lift transfer point to the bridge in WNM on this deck's starboard side. I currently don't have any idea where to place this WNM corridor in the saucer hull because of the strange angle of the last corridor segment and felt locating the transfer point on the upper deck of the engineering hull might at least help to explain the rather short ride to the bridge:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...eforehd031.jpg

As it looks now, I seem have two options:
A) to put the WNM corridor someplace else and have the starboard side to feature an equally circular corridor segment or
B) rotate the circular corridor segment so that the tri-ladder will come close to the port side but leave enough space for the Starnes kid and the security crewmen to walk there.

Now, you can also take the deck plan drafts to move from Engineering Deck 8 down to the lower decks and check the turbo lift locations and transfer points on these lower decks.

I'll be looking at possibilities to optimize Engineering Deck 10 and will be back once I have a new result before I move into the saucer hull. Enjoy!

Bob
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Last edited by Robert Comsol; December 3 2012 at 11:33 AM.
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Old December 3 2012, 01:03 PM   #34
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Obviously I missed a scene from The Immunity Syndrome featuring the EMM, two energizers in background - and the control console from the Auxilary Control Room for this one time only :
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...romehd0555.jpg

(Maybe that's where the idea of two engineering rooms in the engineering hull comes from ).

Bob
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Old December 6 2012, 10:12 PM   #35
Albertese
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Albertese wrote: View Post
...

Why the funny wavy Mylar panels? I say it's decoration pure and simple.
...

--Alex
I have been thinking about those iridescent shower curtain panels on the corridor trusses and the back wall of the transporter platform. Earlier I had claimed they were just decorative, but, after some idle brainstorming, I thought of an interesting idea...

Maybe they're an air filtering system. As air passes over these panels, certain impurities are drawn out of the air and trapped onto the panel. The ship's atmosphere cycles through the entire volume of the ship and every room attaches to the corridors, so all the air would be moved past these panels pretty regularly. It would make sense to have these air impurity collectors on the transporter platforms as the ship is regularly beaming stuff up from strange new worlds, certainly a volume of native atmosphere would come up too, and you don't necessarily want that floating in with the ship's scrubbed air.

Anyhow... just an idea.

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Old December 6 2012, 10:34 PM   #36
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Albertese wrote: View Post
"I have been thinking about those iridescent shower curtain panels on the corridor trusses and the back wall of the transporter platform. ... Maybe they're an air filtering system. As air passes over these panels, certain impurities are drawn out of the air and trapped onto the panel."
Brilliant! I guess radioactive particles count as impurities and that crap has to go somewhere where it's neutralized, especially when I think of the de-contamination procedure on the transporter platform in "The Naked Time".

This could also explain the strange red glowing effects of the transporter platform panels when they accidentally beamed Gary Seven aboard in "Assignment: Earth". Makes you wonder by what kind of particles he was surrounded during his transport.

Bob
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Old December 7 2012, 05:10 AM   #37
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

I can buy the idea that they are of a Trek filtration system.
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Old December 8 2012, 07:21 AM   #38
Wingsley
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

For years dating back to TMP, I assumed that the glowing TOS panels hanging from the ceiling were plasma conduits connecting the various compartments of the ship to power supplies.
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Old December 11 2012, 11:39 AM   #39
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I currently don't have any idea where to place this WNM corridor in the saucer hull because of the strange angle of the last corridor segment and felt locating the transfer point on the upper deck of the engineering hull might at least help to explain the rather short ride to the bridge:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...eforehd031.jpg
To drag focus back to this stage for a moment, I was re-watching WNMHGB the other night and it dawned on my that this is in fact a VERY short turbolift ride to the bridge - around 11 seconds in fact!

Ordinarily turbolift travel times should not be taken too seriously, since (as has been pointed out elsewhere) they can vary depending on which route is taken by the turbolift car, and especially by intervening traffic of other travellers.

However, several times in Season 2 the ship was almost totally deserted, leaving the issue of traffic null and void. Of note here is Kirk, Scott & Spock's journey to the Bridge in By Any Other Name. It starts in Engineering and the journey takes a full 43 seconds, not unreasonable given the distance, really. I feel confident we can take this figure as a "stake in the sand" for a typical travel time from the secondary hull to the bridge.

At other times, a journey from the Bridge to Deck 5 (sickbay, captain's quarters etc) is around the 10-30 second mark (Mirror Mirror, Amok Time, Corbomite M.) It is certainly more suggestive of the turbolift corridor in WNMHGB being in the saucer than in the Secondary Hull

Finally, I should also include the journey from the Bridge to Engineering in Ultimate Computer (20 seconds). Once again, the ship was empty. If this is the whole journey, it may be indicitive of an Engineering section in the saucer, around deck 6 (or 7). Or it may be that we only see the gang for part of their journey (we never see them enter the turbolift at the start).
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Old December 11 2012, 05:35 PM   #40
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
"However, several times in Season 2 the ship was almost totally deserted, leaving the issue of traffic null and void. Of note here is Kirk, Scott & Spock's journey to the Bridge in By Any Other Name. It starts in Engineering and the journey takes a full 43 seconds, not unreasonable given the distance, really. I feel confident we can take this figure as a "stake in the sand" for a typical travel time from the secondary hull to the bridge."
Scotty and Spock use the turbo lift ride as an occasion to inform Kirk about their sabotage / suicide plan and I'd think they deliberately slowed down the speed of the turbo lift to make sure they told the Captain everything he needs to know before they arrive at the bridge and meet their antagonists.

Mytran wrote: View Post
"At other times, a journey from the Bridge to Deck 5 (sickbay, captain's quarters etc) is around the 10-30 second mark (Mirror Mirror, Amok Time, Corbomite M.) It is certainly more suggestive of the turbolift corridor in WNMHGB being in the saucer than in the Secondary Hull."
I agree. Maybe the strange Main Deck 3 corridor seen in "Let That Be..." is a possible candidate (though there's no transporter room in the vicinity).



Mytran wrote: View Post
"Finally, I should also include the journey from the Bridge to Engineering in Ultimate Computer (20 seconds). Once again, the ship was empty. If this is the whole journey, it may be indicitive of an Engineering section in the saucer, around deck 6 (or 7). Or it may be that we only see the gang for part of their journey (we never see them enter the turbolift at the start)."
I remember from a recent watching that they did enter the turbo lift at the bridge and travel straight to the engine room (no horizontal turbo lift lights, unfortunately). But because of the visible corridor walk the engine room couldn't be in the saucer where it would block turbo lift travel to the engineering hull. I firmly believe Matt Jefferies anticipated this problem and therefore gave us an (impulse) engine room arrangement (Season One studio set) to circumvent this problem which you did so beautifully illustrate: http://s757.beta.photobucket.com/use...59794199719881

Bob
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Old December 12 2012, 02:09 AM   #41
blssdwlf
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

That "Ultimate Computer" engine room has to be in the primary hull because of the long curving hallway walk to the engine room and the same walk leaving the engine room. I think that is one of the few episodes that has to be up there due to space reasons. Mytran, your turbolift times would be pretty consistent with the locations on the ship in this case.
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Old December 12 2012, 03:38 PM   #42
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
That "Ultimate Computer" engine room has to be in the primary hull because of the long curving hallway walk to the engine room and the same walk leaving the engine room."
No, it does not have to be in the primary / saucer hull which is exactly the point these WIP deck plans try to illustrate and I addressed the circular corridor radius issue in the introduction.

1. According to the known Season Two studio set plan this would put the UC engine room in the center of the saucer's stern and pretty much block any kind of turbo lift travel between the saucer and the engineering hull (regardless whether you prefer a horizontal/vertical turbo shaft design or the diagonal one I'm advocating).

2. There would be a noticable height difference (which you discovered, BTW) between the Impulse Engine Room(s) from Season One (which do leave turbo shaft space and look like a foresighted Matt Jefferies intention) like "Court-Martial" and a mirrored Season Two engine room. Not only would the height differences look strange but the corridor allignment would be more severely compromised than in the reduced radius concept I'm proposing for the engineering hull around the engineering hull's antimatter pod (where also the circular engineering hull corridors seen in Season One retain their obvious and essential circular nature).

3. The UC engine room features the floor structure commonly associated with the dilithium crystal converter assembly and/or the matter-antimatter reactors. As you brilliantly concluded two of these reactors are in the nacelles and one is inside the engineering hull. It seems to make sense to have this kind of floor structure rather close to any of these three reactors than up in the comparably remote saucer hull.

Bob
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Old December 12 2012, 07:31 PM   #43
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
blssdwlf wrote: View Post
That "Ultimate Computer" engine room has to be in the primary hull because of the long curving hallway walk to the engine room and the same walk leaving the engine room."
No, it does not have to be in the primary / saucer hull which is exactly the point these WIP deck plans try to illustrate and I addressed the circular corridor radius issue in the introduction.
If the radius of the corridor is taken literally, then the Ultimate Computer Engine Room either needs to be in the saucer, or be situated in an Enterprise larger than 947' (even 1080' barely squeezes it in) or tweak the structure of the corridor based on what was actually seen in the episode (I proposed something using a slight pivot here)

If the radius of the corridor is "squinted at" then, as per Robert_Comsol's plans the ship can accommodate it, although it does generate a secondary hull with quite a lot of corridor space...

As I mentioned in my post about the travel times above, we never see the start of the journey in Ultimate Computer so it might actually be longer, allowing for sufficient transit time down the secondary hull.

Personally, I lean to it being another room belonging to the Engineering section but one that is not used for propulsion control (after all, why should all Engine Rooms be solely used for this purpose? Starfleet may favour the layout for it's multiple disciple design, much as the producers of the show did).

I see it this way: In U.C, Kirk and gang travel to a part of the saucer where M-5 has been installed - an Engine Room, but one at the FRONT of the ship, behind those 3 round thingies which (in this argument) are the saucer deflector beam emitters. They are naturally part of the vessel's navigation systems, which is ideal since M-5 requires access to those circuits also. Deflector systems of course require a lot of power, and it is one of those main lines that M-5 taps into (much of the dismay of that poor engineer!)

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But because of the visible corridor walk the engine room couldn't be in the saucer where it would block turbo lift travel to the engineering hull. I firmly believe Matt Jefferies anticipated this problem and therefore gave us an (impulse) engine room arrangement (Season One studio set) to circumvent this problem which you did so beautifully illustrate: http://s757.beta.photobucket.com/use...59794199719881
Of course with my layout decribed above there is no need to give up these two engine rooms at all!
The ease at which the S1 engine room set mirrors itself, allowing an 8' gap inbetween is a piece of design which impresses me as much today as when I first saw it - it really would be shame not to make use of it. I would also like to use full-length "cathedral tubes" but unfortunately the directors of different episodes couldn't resist shooting the set from the wrong angles, so bang goes that forced perspective illusion!!!
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Old December 12 2012, 10:12 PM   #44
Robert Comsol
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Mytran wrote: View Post
"Of course with my layout decribed above there is no need to give up these two engine rooms at all!
The ease at which the S1 engine room set mirrors itself, allowing an 8' gap inbetween is a piece of design which impresses me as much today as when I first saw it - it really would be shame not to make use of it."
Indeed, although the rectangular nature of the transporter room would make it an interesting alternate candidate for the starboard side but I presume the majority of fans expects a symmetrical arrangement here.

Mytran wrote: View Post
"I would also like to use full-length "cathedral tubes" but unfortunately the directors of different episodes couldn't resist shooting the set from the wrong angles, so bang goes that forced perspective illusion!!! "
If you're taking it too literal, yes, but I feel very comfortable with the original producer's intention which was to show us a cathedral that extends further than what was actually there, though according to my estimates would still be limited to a depth of 8 meters, judging by the tube's diameters and the space in-between these (illustrated on my engineering deck 9 draft).

Bob
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Old December 12 2012, 10:39 PM   #45
Mytran
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Re: Kirk's Television Enterprise Deck Plans WIP

Are we talking cross purpose about the same thing? If the forced perspective set were built as it appears, the tubes would run back about 100' or so. If I could, I would like to show that on the deck plans (but alas...)
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