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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old December 6 2012, 08:05 PM   #346
throwback
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Well, IGN blew it in their speculation. Elizabeth Dehner was not the cute blond tech Gary Mitchell set up with James Kirk.

Didn't they cover the events of WNMHGB in a comic, and aren't the writers of this comic tied into the continuity that JJ Abrams is creating for this alternate reality? If so, this excludes either Mitchell or Dehner from consideration.

There are other contenders.

For myself, personally, it seems that many of the Big Hollywood Movies in the last few years have been about villains exacting revenge on the good guys. In the last year alone, there has been The Avengers, The Dark Knight Rises, Men in Black 3, Dark Shadows, Snow White and the Huntsman, and Skyfall.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:05 PM   #347
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Vektor wrote: View Post
Wow, not sure what to make of this.



My biggest problem with Mitchell as the villain is that he requires too much backstory. I'm sorry, but the IDW comic doesn't count.



Another strike against Mitchell is that there is no indication of his god-like powers shown in this teaser trailer. Yes, he obviously has some superhuman strength and other abilities, but no glowing eyes, no telekinetic powers or anything along those lines. Granted, it's only a 63 second trailer and it's possible he has lost most of those powers for some reason, but you have to make a lot of assumptions to believe that he is Gary Mitchell and none to assume that he isn't.

As for the Khan idea, I see nothing here to suggest that other than superhuman strength (hardly conclusive) and the final scene in the Japanese trailer that is reminiscent of WoK.





So who does that leave? Well, the official synopsis states, "When the crew of the Enterprise is called back home, they find an unstoppable force of terror from within their own organization has detonated the fleet and everything it stands for, leaving our world in a state of crisis." That sounds to me like the villain is someone from within Starfleet, corroborated by his numerous appearances in Starfleet uniform, sitting in the captain's chair of a starship, etc. He's also someone who's carrying a serious grudge about something he wants revenge for against Starfleet, Earth et al. There are a few people who fit that bill, including Ben Finney, Captain Ron Tracy, and of course Fleet Captain Garth of Izar. Neither of the first two strike me as epic villain material and neither of them had any kind of superhuman strength or special abilities.

Garth, on the other hand, did have those kinds of abilities. He was an epic character from the start, Starfleet's most decorated hero until he suffered some kind of nearly fatal accident and basically went insane. The Antosians repaired his body with their cellular metamorphosis techniques but apparently couldn't fix his brain. To me, this sounds like the perfect setup for an epic movie villain, with a few easily explainable modifications. I don't imagine he would be quite as loopy and batsh!t crazy as he was in TOS, but definitely megalomaniacal and hell-bent on avenging himself against Starfleet for having him committed to the looney-bin. Or maybe they'll change things up a little this time and have him captured by Klingons and imprisoned on Rura Penthe, where a fellow Antosian prisoner nurses him back to health. Maybe he was on a covert mission for Starfleet and then disavowed after he got caught, and now he wants to get even. Lots of ways they could play it.

So I'm sticking with my Captain Garth theory. Not as recognizable as Khan would be, but the fans will know him and he can be easily introduced to the non-fans without a lot of backstory or exposition. Garth wasn't British per se, but if I had to pick from any of the choices thus far presented on the basis of who Cumberbatch seems most reminiscent of, it would be Garth.

Maybe the longer trailer or the nine-minute preview will prove me wrong, but he's my pick until then.
I agree with just about everything you said.

A few further thoughts (sorta spoilery stuff ahead, though nothing that you can't get from the trailer, the synopsis or the few things that the actors and Powers That Be have said):

The reason why The Wrath of Khan was able to be about Khan's wrath was because Kirk had wronged him way back in "Space Seed". Well, Khan's never been wronged in the Abramsverse. He escaped Earth voluntarily. He probably hasn't even been woken up yet. So Cumberbatch's character going on about "vengeance" does nothing to help the "It's Khan!" case; if anything, I think it hurts it.

Though they aren't canon, the IDW comics are meant to be consistent with the film, having received oversight by Orci. I've only read the first couple, but Gary Mitchell does appear, and his death does not really seem set up for a comeback. (Also, the comic book version looks nothing like Cumberbatch and resembles Gary Lockwood [who, holy shit, also played Frank Poole in 2001; never realized that] much more.)

Also, from what we've seen so far, the film seems to be focusing more on what we my call domestic issues and stuff like loyalty, corruption and family. Going up against a pseudo-god like Mitchell (or even Khan, to a lesser extent) seems inconsistent with that focus. I feel like there would be more emphasis on being "up against impossible odds" were they going with Mitchell.

We see Cumberbatch in a Starfleet uniform. Though this isn't conclusive evidence of anything, Khan never was in Starfleet, and it looks like this film isn't going to have narrative space to set up an infiltration like that. And the way he carries himself in that uniform definitely reminds me of Garth and not Khan or Mitchell.

Cumberbatch has also said that his villain is neither purely good or purely evil, that he has understandable motivations. What if Starfleet did something, and Garth, a captain equal to Kirk in greatness and renown, believes action must be taken? Just like all those time Kirk, Picard, and Sisko went rogue-ish, only this time, Garth turned out to be wrong. Would be a great commentary on moral relativism, and seems to me consistent with what TPTB have said about the film thus far.

As for the business at the end of the Japanese trailer... could mean sooooo many things, many of which probably would make more sense within a narrative than rehashing TWoK. Also, if it were a rehash, then Spock would die, and Quinto (ha, almost said "Nimoy") has said he will be back for a third film. They won't rehash TSfS, not gonna happen. (Okay, maybe it will, but I really, really, really doubt it.) Uhura being momentarily consoled could easily be at an end-of-film memorial service for everyone who died in the villain's attack. (Admiral Pike?)

I'm saying it now: Benedict Cumberbatch will play Fleet Captain Garth of Izar. And it will be awesome.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:07 PM   #348
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

The "superhuman" jump could be because of lower gravity, not powers.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:08 PM   #349
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Bamarren wrote: View Post
...Although maybe its been put in to completely arse with us.
Well, it's working. But, I don't mind because I'm also very entertained, and it's all in good fun!
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Old December 6 2012, 08:08 PM   #350
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

throwback wrote: View Post
Well, IGN blew it in their speculation. Elizabeth Dehner was not the cute blond tech Gary Mitchell set up with James Kirk.

Didn't they cover the events of WNMHGB in a comic, and aren't the writers of this comic tied into the continuity that JJ Abrams is creating for this alternate reality? If so, this excludes either Mitchell or Dehner from consideration.
I haven't read the comic, but from the synopsis I've read Dehner doesn't appear in the comic version. It's possible they were told to leave her for the movie. Or the writers just left her out to change the story slightly.

Comic spoilers I guess:
http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/11/gar...ws-star-trek-2
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Old December 6 2012, 08:12 PM   #351
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

New villain. Old motivation. New FX. Old plot.

Pike died. New blonde. Starships are waterproof. Who the Hell is Cumberbatch playing?

While others are thinking War of the Worlds when they see the pink stuff, I'm reminded somehow of David Gerrold's War Against the Chtorr.

It's definitely a must-see film for this spring, but it's impossible to figure out what's going on based on this montage.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:12 PM   #352
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

The warp nacelles on the ship crashing into the water look like something from a TOS-movie era ship.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:15 PM   #353
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

ad Mitchell: Honestly, why does he have to have the same background as TOS-Mitchell? His having a British accent could easily be explained by... "his family moved to London when he was young" etc. So that would really be a non-issue, not even worth mentioning IMO.

But since history changed with nuTrek... who says that Mitchell ever went across that barrier? He's not on Kirk's Enterprise, and I doubt he was on Pike's since he and Kirk are roughly the same age in TOS. Perhaps it really is another issue with him that's closer to home.

Another thing that just came to me: What if the whole revenge plot centers around Kodos? We know that TOS-Kirk witnessed the massacre, did nuKirk as well? Cumberbatch can't be Kodos, of course, but maybe he's one of the survivors of that massacre (losing his family) and now takes his revenge on Starfleet who didn't react back then...

Oh, I love speculating... *lol*

Romulan_spy wrote: View Post
Edge of Forever wrote: View Post
Re watching the Japanese teaser. When Benedict Cumberbatch is saying 'Is there anything you would not do for your family?', it almost sounds like Benedict's voice is breaking, like the kind of emotional line you'd give when explaining your motivation or driving reason. Were any of the villains in TOS majorly motivated by family?
I agree. I think the villain blames Kirk for the death of a loved one and that becomes one of the motivations for his desire for revenge. In "Wrath of KHan", doesn't Khan blame Kirk for the death of his wife?
But then we already just had the villain avenging his wife - that was Nero's motivation after all.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:27 PM   #354
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

The possibilities are endless.

Gary Mitchell seemed like a perfectly nice guy, until his unfortunate encounter with the Galactic Barrier. If that tragic voyage doesn't happen in the new timeline, Mitchell doesn't become a glowing-eyed douche.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:35 PM   #355
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
The reason why The Wrath of Khan was able to be about Khan's wrath was because Kirk had wronged him way back in "Space Seed". Well, Khan's never been wronged in the Abramsverse. He escaped Earth voluntarily. He probably hasn't even been woken up yet. So Cumberbatch's character going on about "vengeance" does nothing to help the "It's Khan!" case; if anything, I think it hurts it.
Khan escaped Earth after his empire was defeated. After millions dead....He has nothing but hatred for the inferiors who bested him, as evidenced by his trying to kill Kirk and take control of the Enterprise in Space Seed. Getting the Enterprise was only the first step.

Until more comes out, I'm leaning with Mitchell.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:36 PM   #356
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

Alice Eve rocking the blue again, her eyes are slightly different colors, interesting what you see on close ups.

http://i51.tinypic.com/118d8pj.jpg

[Still a bit overlarge for inline image - converted to link. - M']
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Old December 6 2012, 08:38 PM   #357
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

It's Ensign Riley, pissed off because Kirk cancelled the ship's Karaoke Night.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:39 PM   #358
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

My reaction is one of "meh." I admit that it's an excellent trailer on its own merits, but to parallel the sentiment of others, it's basically the same one I've already seen four or five times in the last year. I get that it's supposed to be for non-Trekkies, but I just can't get too excited over it.

More importantly tough, it seems like revenge is the only motivations movies villains have left. Look at the short list:

Avengers: Revenge
TDKR: Revenge
Skyfall: Revenge
TF3: Revenge

And at this point, given the history of the characters involved, one can only assume MoS is going to be about revenge.

Plus, we go back through all the genre films of the last decade and find at least 50% of them are about revenge.

It's the mustache twirl of the 21st century, and I'm seriously starting to get sick of it.

Revenge is a dish best served with popcorn, Milk Duds, and excessive CGI.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:42 PM   #359
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

So, with the WoK style sequence, the hands, could it be Pike and Spock, after Pike rescues some cadets from "an old Class J starship"?
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Old December 6 2012, 08:51 PM   #360
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Re: The Star Trek Into Darkness teaser trailer is here!

KirkusOveractus wrote: View Post
So, with the WoK style sequence, the hands, could it be Pike and Spock, after Pike rescues some cadets from "an old Class J starship"?
You know what, I hadn't consider that. They've already gave a nod to the wheelchair in the last movie, they could kill him on off in this one.
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