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TrekToday http://www.trektoday.com/content Daily Star Trek news Sun, 02 Aug 2015 16:53:37 +0000 en-US hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3 Retro Review: Learning Curve http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/retro-review-learning-curve/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 21:16:02 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41256 Tuvok attempts to train four Maquis crewmembers who are having difficulty following Starfleet protocols.

Plot Summary: Lieutenant Dalby discovers a malfunctioning bio-neural gel pack and replaces it without getting authorization, which causes several systems ship-wide to stop working. Tuvok expresses concern to Janeway that Dalby and some other Maquis crewmembers are not trained or disciplined enough to work on a Starfleet vessel. Though Janeway is more worried about the possibility of multiple gel pack failures disabling Voyager’s systems, she recommends an on-the-job training course for the crewmembers having the greatest difficulties. Chakotay gives onetime Starfleet Academy instructor Tuvok a list of possible candidates, from which Tuvok selects four junior officers – impulsive Dalby, belligerent Henley, unfocused Chell, and bitter Gerron – who deeply resent being singled out for extra attention. The group complains when Tuvok insists that they remove all traces of their personal style from their professional demeanor and marches out after what they consider to be an unfair physical exercise. Neelix offers Tuvok some wisdom about plant stalks needing to be flexible, which Tuvok at first takes to mean that the young crewmembers are too rigid, then discovers that Neelix means to criticize himself and his teaching methods. He tries to get to know Dalby and realizes that some of the Maquis crewmembers suffered traumas that make it impossible for them to become contented, well-adjusted Starfleet officers overnight. Meanwhile, the Doctor discovers that Neelix’s attempt to make cheese has cultivated a bacteria that now infects the gel packs. The Doctor proposes raising the temperature to help the gel packs fight off the infection, but although the gel packs are saved, Tuvok and his unhappy team become trapped in a cargo bay where Gerron is injured. Dalby becomes irate when Tuvok orders him to get to safety with Henley and Chell, but when Tuvok himself violates procedure, risking his life to save Gerron, the Maquis officers are impressed and promise to work harder to obey the rules.

Analysis: I didn’t like “Learning Curve” when it first aired for its obnoxious attitude toward Maquis dissidents and indeed toward anyone who refused to assimilate entirely into Starfleet’s arbitrary regulations, which I thought at the time might just reflect my lack of understanding of how military protocols worked. But it rubs me the wrong way even more so now that we’ve seen some of the history of Vulcan intolerance in Enterprise, and now that we know the Maquis will be asked to give up their sense of belonging to their own cultures as well as their identities as members of an organization in conflict with Starfleet (the latter a demand that’s completely justified on a mission like Voyager’s, though I note that Worf was allowed to wear the accoutrements of a Klingon warrior on duty even when the Klingons were at war with the Federation). Of course it’s a problem that many of the Maquis have not had Starfleet training in teamwork, physical fitness, even self-protection, though I might note that Neelix and Kes haven’t either. It would seem both reasonable and fair for Tuvok to include them in a course to get underprepared crewmembers ready for life traveling through the Delta Quadrant, particularly since Kes had never left her village, let alone her homeworld, until just before Voyager arrived. The cheese incident that almost destroys the bio-neural gel packs is a far more heinous betrayal of safety protocols than the replacement of one of those gel packs, even if Dalby is rude when reprimanded while Neelix only stammers in embarrassment. And surely there are Starfleet crewmembers as well as Maquis who were unprepared to have a brief mission into the Badlands turn into a potentially lifelong journey? Couldn’t many of the junior officers use a refresher course in focus and teamwork? If Janeway and Chakotay’s goal is to get their two crews functioning as a single unit with the same ease with which Torres now works with Carey, they’d be well advised to include some Starfleet officers in the remedial class even just for show. Not so long ago, Tom Paris was a criminal and Torres was punching fellow officers, while now they’re fourth and fifth in the command chain; seems like a lot of people on that ship could use a bit of extra attention.

And although Tuvok may have been an Academy instructor for more than a decade, he seems like the wrong person to be leading an exercise in new-to-Starfleet teamwork. These angry, demoralized Maquis crewmembers need a counselor, not a disciplinarian; the morale officer might do them more good, and indeed does them more good when he lectures Tuvok, than a stern Vulcan whom they consider a traitor to their cause. I think it’s a mistake that we see the senior officers’ point of view rather than that of the recruits, since we don’t get to learn the positive independent-minded aspects of what Chakotay dismisses as “the Maquis way.” A strong left hook may get someone hauled before a disciplinary committee in Starfleet, but we’ve had such behavior by the Klingons rammed down our throats for years now as something we should admire, so it just doesn’t look particularly outrageous when a Maquis crewmember does precisely what a Klingon would do in a similar situation of being singled out for his temper. Apart from Dalby, who joined the Maquis because Cardassians brutalized his girlfriend, we never get to know the Maquis crewmembers, and the more Tuvok talks, the more arrogant he seems, like the obnoxious Vulcans of “Take Me Out to the Holosuite” rather than thoughtful, nuanced individuals like Spock and Sarek. Now that the US military and other such organizations have relaxed their rules about whether and when soldiers can wear yarmulkes, hijabs, and other items directly related to the practice of religion, I feel even more justified in my fury against Tuvok when he orders Gerron to take off his Bajoran earring – an accessory quite different from the headband that Tuvok forbids Henley to wear. The Bajoran earring is a symbol of faith. It’s also a mark of one’s family and social caste, two things that the young Gerron has lost being stranded 70,000 light years from home. Whether he had lost those already in a traumatic incident that led him to join the Maquis, as Dalby seems to believe, or whether he joined the Maquis out of sympathy for the settlers’ desire to protect their homes, like Kasidy Yates, Gerron is clearly clinging to this one meaningful relic of his former life, which Tuvok orders him to put away without any care for its significance.

Clearly, Tuvok is obsessed with the letter of the law rather than its spirit – he’s closer to being Javert from Les Miserables than was Sisko when Eddington mocked him with that sobriquet – but given the pettiness of the Vulcans we saw in many TNG and DS9 episodes, I gather we’re supposed to assume that it’s because Tuvok’s a Vulcan, for whom logic demands holding even to the most trivial of regulations. But I can’t understand why Chakotay agrees to let someone whom he thought served his own cause, then turned out to have been working behind his back all along, serve as corrections officer for other Maquis crewmembers. Chakotay’s facial tattoo would not be permitted even in the current US military, and I’d love to hear his response if Tuvok ordered him to remove it or cover it up. He’s usually a champion of diversity and broadmindedness, yet he seems amused at the thought of having four shipmates for whom he was once responsible, who are as troubled as they are troubling, put under Tuvok’s yoke. Of course ship-wide discipline is important in a crisis, as we see when it takes much of the crew working together to solve the problem with the gel packs, but a rigid dress code for people who will be working together for many years can hardly be the element that makes them see themselves as a team. It will be acknowledging, understanding, accepting, and taking advantage of their differences which will accomplish that. If the Starfleet uniform serves to bond Voyager’s crew in early days, it later serves to homogenize them; no wonder Sisko preferred spending his off-duty hours in African dress and Kira never stopped wearing her Bajoran earring even when in Starfleet uniform. “Learning Curve” fails in its effort to be “Lower Decks” because it fears to let us get to know and admire the quirks of the individual Maquis, erasing their distinct histories and grievances even as Janeway’s off playing traditional British governess in a traditional British novel knockoff. She needs to spend more time thinking about exactly which aspects of the Federation she plans to keep thriving on her ship as it creeps toward home.

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Star Trek: The Exhibition In Washington State http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-the-exhibition-in-washington-state/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 19:00:37 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41252 Star Trek: The Exhibition will be arriving at the Washington State Fair in September.

The Washington State Fair will take place September 11-27 in Puyallup.

Star Trek: The Exhibition, under license by CBS Consumer Products, will run for seventeen days and gives visitors the opportunity to enjoy an interactive, museum-style experience of one of the largest collections of authentic Star Trek artifacts and information ever put on public display. This is a separate ticketed exhibit, and requires Fair admission. Exhibit tickets can be purchased in advance for $6.50 until Sept 10 here, or $8 at the State Fair. Children five years and under are free in the exhibit with a paid adult. Online orders are subject to standard processing fees.

The Exhibition brings visitors into the Star Trek universe and allows them to connect with iconic Star Trek moments. Throughout this experience, visitors, especially younger visitors and youth, will be inspired and motivated to seek out more education, and perhaps ignite a passion for lifelong learning and careers in science and technology.

Star Trek fans and novices alike will have a first-hand interactive experience to explore the worlds, wisdom, science, stories, cultures, characters, fashions and fantasies of the Star Trek universe. In the States, and around the world, Star Trek has become a sub-culture for many, supported by countless fan conventions and fan gatherings where many regularly gather and role-play in their favorite Star Trek characters.

“Among the main attractions of The Exhibition is the opportunity to sit in the legendary Captain’s chair where Captain Kirk and subsequently Captain Picard took command of the U.S.S. Enterprise; the opportunity to pose in front of a replica of the U.S.S. Enterprise; and one-of-a-kind displays, interactive kiosks and rare photo opportunities.”

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August-September 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/august-september-2015-trek-conventions-and-appearances/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:53:51 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41248 There will be nineteen conventions, shows or appearances in August and September that will feature actors of interest to Star Trek fans.

This listing of conventions and shows features actors from all of the televised series and several of the Star Trek movies.

August begins with The Official Star Trek Convention will be held Aug. 6-9 at the Rio Suites Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. In attendance at The Official Star Trek Convention will be Marc Alaimo, Vaughn Armstrong, Richard Arnold, Rene Auberjonois, Robert Beltran, Casey Biggs, John Billingsley, Brannon Braga, Bobby Clark, Joan Collins, Jeffrey Combs, Denise Crosby, Olivia d’Abo, Michael Dante, James Darren, Roxanne Dawson, Nicole de Boer, John de Lancie, Elizabeth Dennehy (Commander Shelby), Chris Doohan, Michael Dorn, Doug Drexler, Aron Eisenberg, Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Bryan Fuller, Joseph Gatt, Max Grodenchik, Richard Herd, J.G. Hertzler, Jennifer Hetrick (Vash), Manu Intiraymi, Sherry Jackson, Salome Jens, Dominic Keating, Walter Koenig, Alice Krige, Cirroc Lofton, Don Marshall, Chase Masterson, Robert Duncan McNeill, Anthony Montgomery, Ronald B. Moore, Kate Mulgrew, Larry Nemecek, Adam Nimoy, Denise Okuda, Mike Okuda, Robert O’Reilly, Linda Park, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, Andrew Robinson, Rod Roddenberry, David L. Ross (Lt. Galloway and Lt. Johnson), Saul Rubinek, Tim Russ, Jeri Ryan, Judson Scott (Joachim from The Wrath of Khan), William Shatner, Mark Allen Shepherd (Morn), William Morgan Sheppard, Armin Shimerman, Alexander Siddig, Marina Sirtis, Rick Sternbach, Sir Patrick Stewart, Kitty Swink, George Takei, Connor Trinneer, Karl Urban, Nana Visitor, Garrett Wang, and Michael Westmore.

Next up is Shore Leave, to be held Aug. 7-9 at the Baltimore Hunt Valley Inn in Hunt Valley, Maryland. In attendance at Shore Leave will be Daniel Davis (Professor James Moriarty).

The Steel City Con will be held Aug. 7-9 at the Monroeville Convention Center in Monroeville, Pennsylvania. In attendance at Steel City Con will be Nichelle Nichols.

The Dublin Comic Con will be held Aug. 8-9 at the Convention Centre Dublin in Dublin, Ireland. In attendance at Dublin Comic Con will be Gates McFadden.

The Windsor ComiCon will be held Aug. 15-16 at the Caesars Windsor in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Windsor ComiCon will be Marina Sirtis.

Crypticon Kansas City will take place Aug. 21-23 at the Howard Johnson Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. In attendance at Crypticon Kansas City will be Sid Haig, Chris Sarandon, and Tony Todd.

Walker Stalker Con will be held Aug. 22-23 at the Westin Waterfront in Boston, Massachusetts. In attendance at Walker Stalker Con will be Denise Crosby.

The Central Coast Comic Con will take place Aug. 28-30 at the Ventura County Fairgrounds in Ventura, California. In attendance at Central Coast Comic Con will be Sid Haig (Lawgiver in Return of the Archons) and Deep Roy.

Wrapping up August will be the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con, to be held Aug. 29-30 at the Bournemouth International Centre in Bournemouth, England. In attendance at the Bournemouth Film & Comic Con will be Max Grodenchik.

September begins with Fan Expo Canada, which will be held Sept. 3-6 at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at Fan Expo Canada will be Jeffrey Combs, Malcolm McDowell, Jennifer Morrison, Kate Mulgrew, Ethan Phillips, Robert Picardo, and Jeri Ryan.

Dragon*Con will take place Sept. 4-7 at several hotels in Atlanta, Georgia. In attendance at Dragon*Con will be Terry Farrell, Jonathan Frakes, Gary Lockwood, and Paul McGillion.

Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be held Sept. 4-6 at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. In attendance at Wizard World Comic Con San Jose will be Adrienne Barbeau.

The Alamo City Comic Con will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Henry B. Gonzalez Convention Center in San Antonio, Texas. In attendance at Alamo City Comic Con will be Olivia d’Abo and Ron Perlman.

The Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be held Sept. 11-13 at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Pittsburgh will be Colm Meaney and William Shatner.

RocCon will be held Sept. 11-13 at the Kodak Event Center in Rochester, New York. In attendance at RocCon will be Nichelle Nichols and Marina Sirtis.

Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be held Sept. 18-20 at the Greater Columbus Convention Center in Columbus, Ohio. Appearing at Wizard World Comic Con Columbus will be Brent Spiner.

The Rose City Comic Con will be held Sept. 19-20 at the Oregon Convention Center in Portland, Oregon. In attendance at Rose City Comic Con will be Walter Koenig, Nichelle Nichols, and Wil Wheaton.

The Salt Lake Comic Con will be held Sept. 24-26 at the Salt Palace in Salt Lake City, Utah. Walter Koenig will be appearing at the Salt Lake Comic Con.

September wraps up with the London Comic Con, to be held Sept. 25-27 at the Western Fair District in London, Ontario, Canada. In attendance at the London Comic Con will be Nicole de Boer and Ron Perlman.

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Shatner To Pen Book On Nimoy http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/shatner-to-pen-book-on-nimoy/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:45:58 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41245 William Shatner is planning on writing a book about his friend Leonard Nimoy.

Shatner considered Nimoy to be a brother to him.

“I’m writing a book about Leonard,” said Shatner. “I had a brother, whose life arc was so much like mine that we understood each other completely. Our age, our birth, the same types of problems in our marriages – our careers arced in the same manner.

“We had a great deal in common, Leonard and I. And thusly we were able to understand each other. I’ve lost a dear friend.”

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Star Trek Beyond Building Continues http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/star-trek-beyond-building-continues/#comments Fri, 31 Jul 2015 18:42:43 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41236 More photographs from the Star Trek Beyond set have emerged.

Five new photos show the progress made in building the set which began back in May.

STB-1

The first photo shows the bare bones of the set back in May.

STB-2

The second photo shows what appeared to be a building with some broken trees on it.

STB-3

In the third photo, it becomes clear that the second photo was not a building, but hills with broken trees. The plywood of the second photo has been covered with dirt.

STB-4

STB-5

In the last two photos, the “hills” set is being expanded.

Larger-sized photos are available at the referring site.

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Trinneer In Western Horror http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/trinneer-in-western-horror/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:14:05 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41232 Fans of Connor Trinneer will be able to see the actor in a western horror movie set to release on DVD and VOD beginning August 4.

The movie is called A Good Day To Die.

In A Good Day To Die, “Baron Emerson uses his vast wealth to travel the world and hunt. He does not hunt animals, he hunts warriors. The Baron arrives at the American frontier and is looking for his next prey. An outlaw gunslinger named Chamberlin who is in jail and set to be hanged. The Baron arranges for Chamberlin to be freed so that he can hunt him like an animal in a bloody game of life and death in the Wild West.”

Trinneer portrays the hunted Chamberlin, while Robert Koroluck is the hunter Baron Emerson. Others included in A Good Day To Die include Nadia Lanfranconi, Jay Kown, and Leia Perez.

A Good Day To Die was written and directed by Rene Perez.

The movie has already made its European debut, where it was released under the title Prey For Death.

For US fans, to pre-order A Good Day To Die, which sells for $8.46, head to the link located here.

 

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Beam Me Up Scotty Figurines http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/beam-me-up-scotty-figurines/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:10:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41229 Two new original series figures feature Kirk and Spock in the process of “beaming up.”

The figures will be available from Funko beginning next month.

Each poseable figure is 3 3/4″ in height and features a beaming effect (the bottom part of each character shows this effect). “Captain James T. Kirk [and Spock have five] points of articulation and features unique accessories and the 1980s style card back design.”

The Beaming Kirk and Spock ReAction figures will ship next month. Each sells for $12.99 and can be pre-ordered here for Kirk, and here for Spock.

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UK Auction To Feature Spock Costume http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/uk-auction-to-feature-spock-costume/#comments Thu, 30 Jul 2015 17:08:35 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41226 TrekUKAuction073015

An auction to be held in the UK this autumn will feature a costume worn by Leonard Nimoy.

The Prop Store and Odeon Entertainment Memorabilia Live Auction will take place September 23.

The catalog for the auction isn’t available yet, but at least two Star Trek items will be auctioned.

A costume worn by Nimoy during the second season (blue shirt and black trousers) will be up for auction, and is expected to fetch up to £70,000.

Also in the auction will be a model starship used in The Next Generation and Deep Space Nine.

Other non-Trek items of interest include a Star Wars stormtrooper helmet, Arnold Schwarzenegger‘s jacket from Terminator 3, a Lord of the Rings Witch King’s dagger, and a set of claws worn by Hugh Jackman in X2:X-Men United.

In all, four-hundred-and-fifty items will be auctioned.

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Pine To Star In Wonder Woman http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pine-to-star-in-wonder-woman/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:57:20 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41222 PineWonderWoman052815

Back in May, TrekToday reported that Chris Pine was in negotiations to star in Warner Bros. Wonder Woman; today comes word that Pine has signed on for the role.

Pine will be playing Steve Trevor, Diana Prince’s love interest.

In the Wonder Woman comics, Trevor “was an intelligence officer in the United States Army during World War II whose plane crashed on Paradise Island, the isolated homeland of the Amazons. He was nursed back to health by the Amazon princess Diana, who fell in love with him and followed him when he returned to the outside world. There she became Wonder Woman (and also his co-worker, Diana Prince).”

Pine’s deal reportedly includes sequel options.

Written by Jason Fuchs, Wonder Woman will be directed by Patty Jenkins. Pine will be starring with Gal Gadot, who will take on the role of Diana Prince.

Wonder Woman will be released June 23, 2017.

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Pegg Teases Elba Character http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/ http://www.trektoday.com/content/2015/07/pegg-teases-elba-character/#comments Wed, 29 Jul 2015 17:54:46 +0000 http://www.trektoday.com/content/?p=41218 Elba072915

Simon Pegg spoke briefly about the character that Idris Elba will be playing in Star Trek Beyond.

The character that Elba will be playing will be unique, Pegg promised.

“It’s a really interesting, complex character,” said Pegg. “We shouldn’t expect to see anything like Benedict Cumberbatch‘s creepy genius Khan from Star Trek Into Darkness in Elba’s performance, however. His performance is all his own.”

There’s a good reason that Elba’s villain is different than Cumberbatch’s. “Only because it would be a retread,” said Pegg. “What we don’t want to do is have the same kind of villain with the same motivation.”

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Old December 6 2012, 05:26 PM   #151
Darkwing
Commodore
 
Location: This dry land thing is too wierd!
Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

[QUOTE=LtChange;7069939]
Solarbaby wrote: View Post
Taken from Wikipedia
Traditionally, a chaplain is a minister in a specialized setting such as a priest, pastor, rabbi, imam, lay representative of a world view attached to a secular institution such as a hospital, prison, military unit, police department, university, or private chapel. Though originally the word "chaplain" referred to representatives of the Christian faith,[1] it is now applied to men and women of other religions or philosophical traditions–such as in the case of the humanist chaplains serving with military forces in the Netherlands and Belgium.
I find the idea of a chaplain on a modern day warship ironic. Since most religions at the root of their teachings are peaceful. Its often man's interpretation of the scriptures that leads to war. So why have a person of faith serving on a ship that potentially could bring the deaths of a lot of people? It's definitely not in the ideal of spiritual peace and harmony.
Because the people on that ship still feel a need for that spiritual guidance.

For this reason I think it would be interesting to have a Chaplain who was a non believer in any religion but open minded. Trained to respect and help individuals contemplate their own beliefs. I think a Chaplain with his own strong faith guiding others who worship wormhole aliens and idols etc would have conflicts with his own beliefs too much to be an objective advisor. I think a counsellor is more fitting for this job- assuming they didnt have their own strong faith.
That makes no sense to me. Now, in the real world, I've know chaplains of strong faith who could minister well to others of differing faiths, and those whose own faith blinded them to the potential validity of other faiths. But I can't wrap my mind around an atheist chaplain.

Exactly my point. A huge amount of religious beliefs caused a lot of wars. The idea of an universal chaplain is plain and simple stupid. Just take Earths religious views. How can you "sync" them into a universal chaplain? We are at the counselor idea already. Was Troi a chaplain? Don't think so. As for the chaplain: atheist will not like a chaplain aboard the ship, strict religious beliefs will not accept a universal chaplain ... If Star Trek wants to explore religious views of a character than do so through a character, not a chaplain how counsels everyone aboard. I could buy a character like Guinan who understands you and if you are religious she tries to relate to the character and talk about the topic, but that's about it ... Do not force religion upon Star Trek just because "God bless America and we need that in Star Trek too". We don't.
Stupid to a blindly liberal atheist, perhaps.

Let's say we didn't read that ... If you really consider yourself a Star Trek fan you should be ashamed sir. And if you are not, respect the fans please. No more comment on this topic.
Thanks for the censorship. BB dayspeech # 1.

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
As for controversy? This when people want an openly gay character on a Trek series?
It's a completely different story. You cannot put on the same page religion with sexual orientation.
No? It certainly seems to be a nearly religious mania nowadays.

DonIago wrote: View Post
If the chaplain -did- have a form of spirituality that they ascribed to I can imagine crewmembers being quite put-off by the notion that that individual had the captain's ear in any capacity in which someone of their own spirituality did not.
I've gone to allegedly secular sleepaway camps that nevertheless had "optional" Chapel services and "non-denominational" Grace before meals and such...and I have to say I found it pretty uncomfortable. Even if you accept that they're not attempting to impose their beliefs on anyone, one has to wonder how they would have reacted if asked to make a more demonstrative effort to accommodate other belief systems.
Such crewmembers would provide conflict, another thing Roddenberry tried to claim we were past. More senility. As for the anecdote, I've been there, too. Just be quiet and respect their right to practice, then, when they criticize you for being different, say "I extended you the courtesy of being quiet during your practices; allow me the same".
[QUOTE=Knight Templar;7071037]
LtChange wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Gene Roddenberry doesn't own Star Trek. He never owned Star Trek. And he has been dead for more than 20 years.
Several times more Star Trek has been produced without his input as was produced with his input.
And lots of the things he did do were crap anyway.
So again. Who cares what Roddenberry thought?
Rude and disrespectful, could be stated more tactfully.
And religion actually causing wars is way overstated. Lots of the so called "religious wars" were fought for purely secular reasons with religious justifications tacked on later to give the conflict the veneer of moral legitimacy.
True in some cases.
Gene Roddenberry created Star Trek. Gene Roddenberry was the creative genius behind Star Trek TOS, TNG S1-S2 and the first 4 movies. So again, what you are saying is disrespectful. Without Gene Roddenberry we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Yes, many Star Trek series were created without Gene Roddenberry but most of them respected Genes ideas. So who cares? A true fan!
a true fan of IDIC allows that there's room for varying opinion.

He is dead. Get over it.
And he was far, far, far from a genius. He basically copied a lot from Forbidden Planet IIRC.
And given that Deep Space Nine has often been considered far and away the Trek series in the modern era that discarded Roddenberry's ideas the most yet was arguably the highest quality wise, I would say we can put paid to the idea of GRs ideas being "quality" ones.
Getting ruder.

Jimi_James wrote: View Post
Here's a question though. Where does this chaplain fall in the chain of command?
If it were a full time assignment and a Starfleet career field, I would imagine it to be a staff position and it's own small department.
How does one person handle the medical needs of 150 alien species? A chaplain wouldn't have to be an expert in all religions.
Controversial matters are good. But it hard to see how a chaplain would in fact be controversial, Star Trek is usually keyed to an American audience, a deliberately generic Christian chaplain who ministers equally to all beliefs would be offensive how?
There are religious characters in all the series, including the animated series.
And right there is the prime reason to have a Starfleet chaplain.
If the alternative is absolutely nothing? I would say that acceptance would be positive.
Military chaplains do this every day.
Completely agree. But also, a chaplain can bring a different philosophical bent to the plot du jour. Some very good science fiction has been written that way.

atheist will not like a chaplain aboard the ship
Why not? The Federation is a diverse assemblage, why would a atheist aboard a Starship wish to deign their fellow crewmembers of something they themselves don't want to avail themselves of?
Would that be enough of a reason?
A lot of folks today seem to think so.
A huge amount of religious beliefs caused a lot of wars.
Historically about seven percent.
Source? I'd like to see more on that.

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Considering Earth's growth beyond Religion (Or even disregarding that and considering all the Dominations we currently have) plus all the Religions of all the Star Fleet Member Worlds, I really don't see how a Position of Chaplain could be managed, you strip away the Denomination, and you simply end up with a Counselor, which we already have.
No, I think the only way to have a Religious person like that would be for them have a different function on the ship, say an Engineer who just happens to be Religious, and people seek out that Engineer because of their balance and their morals and ethics.
Or even perhaps someone with the Position of Counselor, who happens to be someone religious. Maybe even center some stories around Religious conflict for them. IE: Their Religious Beliefs lead them to believe the right thing to tell a patient is one thing, but, their Counselor Duties and teachings tell them they should be telling their patient the exact opposite.
So, yea, a Chaplain as a position, I don't think would work, you'd have to give them another position, but, they just so happen to be Religious.
I really don't agree. A shrink cannot help with spirituality; a chaplain can help counsel.

Newspaper Taxi wrote: View Post
I think this idea makes a great deal of sense. Think of some of the anomalies the characters run into -- being turned into children, meeting creatures that proclaim to be gods or take on the form of religious figures, fun with DNA, and space being the great unknown. While the officers on duty some of this has got to screw with their minds and get them thinking about spiritual matters.
I guess that a Starfleet Chaplain would be like a counselor that specializes in existenial questions that can't be answered; as opposed to a counselor, who helps you work through emotional trauma/conflicts/depression. A counselor could work you through these problems as well, of course, but splitting the position might be useful -- one to keep the crew's mental/emotional health in check, one to help with those bigger un-answerable questions.
I also don't have a problem believing that a Starfleet Chaplain could be well-versed in hundreds of different religions and philosophiess. I mean, I already accept that Starfleet has these wonder-engineers that can squint at a screen of data and come up with new techniques never before attempted that work perfectly. It would be like the potential career path for those religious studies and philosophy majors in the Trek universe.
Even if the humans in Trek have moved beyond religion, and are 'evolved' humans, they've still got to have some of the kinds of questions that keep you up at night. Trek is always trumpeting what it means to be human, and i think that's a part of it too.
Yes, that makes sense to me.

John Mason wrote: View Post
Star Trek is about the future of humanity and of exploration, (well it used to be). The last thing Star Trek needs is to return to the dark ages of the military, fear, superstition and doctrine, something that has emerged of late. This is starfleet not the Royal/U.S Navy. Starfleet was founded to seek out and explore in peace, not exploit and conquer in war.
Since the end of TNG the franchise has slowly slid into a militaristic side show.
to quote Jean luc Picard "Does anyone remember when we used to be explorers"
If someone needs religion they don't need a priest/chaplain
I would have thought we were beyond such nonsense ...
I find this whole post offensive, ignorant drivel and factually incorrect in it's entirety.

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Hardly nonsense, and hopefully neither we, nor others from beyond Earth, will ever be "beyond it."
I have no problem with spirituality, but I consider organized religion nonsense and hope we will move beyond that.
While I'm agnostic, I hope we never abandon religion entirely. It does have positive social value, within bounds.
I'm also against a chaplain aboard federation ships, it's not just an international crew, it's an interplanetary crew, there are too many faiths and belief systems for it to work. A counsellor can do the job much better than a chaplain who is clearly a member of a specific belief system, of course the counsellor can have a religion too, but they're not part of the job description.
Imagine a bajoran vedek having the chaplain job on a ship, could someone from earth relate to him? After all his "gods" are real, you can literally visit them, there's no doubt that they exist, even if you consider them to be just wormhole aliens, you know they are real. There's a very big disconnect that's not comparable to christians and muslims for example, as those religions are basically identical.
Of course a bajoran counsellor would most likely have the same faith, but it's just not as obvious.
Disagree. A counselor is nowhere near as comforting during a death in the family as a minister, regardless of denomination. I speak from experience.

Core wrote: View Post
You could probably make it work, a chaplain as a character, although I have my doubts that you could wrap a whole show around one.
To be honest, I'd be disappointed though. I found DS9 way too steeped in the Bajoran mythology, it became really tedious to watch. I kept wanting to skip the episodes focusing on all the praying and the priests with the earrings bickering amongst themselves.
I like exploration shows, whether it's technology, politics, science, culture. But religion? I think it's best left to a private dialogue between a person and whatever they choose to believe in. I don't find it interesting enough to tune in week after week to see how many different ways people in space can think of to pray.
The idea was just adding such a character to the main cast - and it would enable exploration of philosophy, which fits Trek really well.

Longinus wrote: View Post
I am utterly gobsmacked how many people seem to think that this would be a good idea, rather than absolutely ludicrous one. A starfleet chaplain would have Roddenberry spin in his grave fast enough to power a warp drive. Federation is atheistic, there is no religion.
His ashes are already spinning in orbit, but he was wrong on this anyway. He was revisionist, bitter, vindictive, and senile in his later years. You're wrong on this issue, and need to remember IDIC.
Longinus wrote: View Post
Well, it is indeed troubling if Vulcans actually pray. That is not a logical thing to do. Another reason to dislike Voyager, I guess.
Of main Starfleet personnel I can remember, closest of having religious faith comes Worf, who seems to genuinely believe things about Klingon afterlife (which probably is shown to actually exist or something in some episode or another.) However, even he doesn't worship any gods.
Gods in Star Trek always prove to be super-aliens/computers/impostors etc, and the Starfleet folks treat them as such, often denouncing them. In 'Who Watches the Watches' Picard is horrified that the Mintakans would revert back to their old superstitious ways, having already evolved past that state. It is clear there that humanity has long ago abandoned any such silliness.
Even during TNG, when Picard made these asinine pronouncements, there were examples of other strains of thought. Trek has never been exclusively hostile & dismissive to religion.
Longinus wrote: View Post
I don't think we are going to find a common ground.
To me Star Trek represents (and should represent) sort of evelved humanity that has no use for religion. They solve their problems with reason. Superstition just do not fit that worldview.
This is the problem I see with you over on the SFMC thread: The intolerance of tolerance, the inflexible, un-nuanced thinking of the young, and the idolization of Roddenberry.

Longinus wrote: View Post
From the production perspective, it certainly was a something for the Christian audience of the show. But that doesn't mean that the characters in the show were Christians.
But that does show that the main characters come from a culture where christianity is still important.

Longinus wrote: View Post
Age of a belief is not an indication of its veracity. People used to believe thousand of years that world was flat. Then that Sun revolved around the Earth. Furthermore, the plural of anecdote is not data.
And scientific studies actually control how they select their samplings. How can you trust the studies on medicine, politics or anything else if you cannot trust them on this?
Part of the problem is that they too often DO cherrypick data. And anecdotes are data if observed and recorded.
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Old December 6 2012, 05:36 PM   #152
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Xhiandra wrote: View Post
The fundamentalism of some of this board's posters is both incredibly scary and depressing.
While I would not consider myself a fundamentalist, I do profess a belief in a Supreme Being. How can what has been posted by anyone here so far be classified as "fundamentalism"? Others here believe in God. Why can't they be allowed to say so without being labeled? There has been no advocacy of snake handling, speaking in tongues, self-flagellation, or any of the other things that most people would ascribe to a fundamentalist way of thinking. Some people are unapologetic in their spiritualism. Why should that automatically categorize them as a fundie by your or anyone else's standards?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - but atheists telling believers that they are misguided in their beliefs and not expect an argument is just as ignorant (and hypocritical) as believers telling non-believers they're going to hell and not have a problem with that. It is opinion. Not fact. You may not like it and that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't at least be recognized and respected as what they believe without verbal persecution.
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Old December 6 2012, 07:58 PM   #153
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Darkwing wrote:
No? It certainly seems to be a nearly religious mania nowadays.
What you mean by this?

His ashes are already spinning in orbit, but he was wrong on this anyway. He was revisionist, bitter, vindictive, and senile in his later years.
Let's just say we disagree on that.

This is the problem I see with you over on the SFMC thread: The intolerance of tolerance, the inflexible, un-nuanced thinking of the young, and the idolization of Roddenberry.
Thank you for this enlightening character analysis, I guess.

But that does show that the main characters come from a culture where christianity is still important.
Certainly. Effects of Christianity on the western society and culture will be felt for centuries or even millennia after people stop believing that the mythological aspects of it are true. Think Greco-Roman mythology; we are still familiar with it and it is still referenced today. We understand what Mars and Venus (or Ares and Aphrodite) symbolise, even though this religion they belonged to has been dead for ages.
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Old December 6 2012, 08:18 PM   #154
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137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
While I would not consider myself a fundamentalist, I do profess a belief in a Supreme Being. How can what has been posted by anyone here so far be classified as "fundamentalism"? Others here believe in God. Why can't they be allowed to say so without being labeled? There has been no advocacy of snake handling, speaking in tongues, self-flagellation, or any of the other things that most people would ascribe to a fundamentalist way of thinking. Some people are unapologetic in their spiritualism. Why should that automatically categorize them as a fundie by your or anyone else's standards?
I do not think anyone here has been shown themselves to be a fundamentalist. However, the exact reasoning (or lack thereof) can and often is used to defend fundamentalist ideas.

I used rather harsh language regarding the effect of prayer. This is because that is exactly the kind of thinking that is behind creationism; that God can (and will) directly affect the world, and even though scientist may explain that there is absolutely no evidence for this and plenty to contrary, the scientists are just labelled as liars and fools, and the creationists keep pushing their hokum.

Personally I have little problem with someone believing in a non-interventionist creator who just started it all, using the laws of physics as his tools. Providing of course that believing in such God do not entail preaching morals beyond common human decency.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - but atheists telling believers that they are misguided in their beliefs and not expect an argument is just as ignorant (and hypocritical) as believers telling non-believers they're going to hell and not have a problem with that. It is opinion. Not fact. You may not like it and that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't mean it shouldn't at least be recognized and respected as what they believe without verbal persecution.
Thing is, there actually is a truth. Things are in one way or another. Either broken mirrors cause bad luck or they don't. It is not just a matter of opinion. And we can examine these things. I do not believe that religious beliefs require any more (or less) respect than other beliefs. And when religions make claims about observable world, then they invite those claims to be challenged and tested.

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Old December 6 2012, 08:55 PM   #155
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

It's cool Longinus and you make some valid points and offer an interesting perspective into the atheist philosophy. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but that's cool too.

I was responding primarily to Xhiandra's generalized (and rather over-exaggerated) labeling of those who don't happen to share her opinion.
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Old December 6 2012, 09:42 PM   #156
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Longinus wrote: View Post
People used to believe thousand of years that world was flat.
Belief (there's that word again) that the world was flat, was held by a few relatively small population groups in historical times. The Mayans and the Egyptians knew thousands of years ago the general shape of the world. To most primitive peoples the shape of the world wasn't important.

Xhiandra wrote: View Post
Though I'll grant that fundamentalist oxymora are hilarious. "Atheist dogma". XD.
Dogma:

1) An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true.

2) A system of beliefs or doctrines held by a religion, or a particular group or organization.
How, in the smallest way, is the use of the term "Atheist Dogma" inappropriate or incorrect in this discussion?

...and gnostic/fundie
Is the use of this obviously derisive term on your part an indication that you find your own position and discussion points weak? Given that this a discussion involving religion, it has (until now) been remarkable polite and civil.

My suggestion is that you mind your manners, or crawl back into The Neutral Zone.

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Old December 6 2012, 10:09 PM   #157
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Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
Belief (there's that word again) that the world was flat, was held by a few relatively small population groups in historical times. The Mayans and the Egyptians knew thousands of years ago the general shape of the world. To most primitive peoples the shape of the world wasn't important.
I don't think you're correct. Egyptians believed that world was a flat disk surrounded by water. Pretty much all early cultures believed something like this. IIRC it was the Greek philosopher Pythagoras who first postulated that Earth was in fact a sphere. It took centuries for this to became commonly accepted. Chinese believed Earth to be flat till 17th century.

But that is details anyway. The main point was that a lot of people have really long time believed all sort of stuff that is completely bogus.
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Old December 6 2012, 10:18 PM   #158
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Darkwing wrote: View Post
A huge amount of religious beliefs caused a lot of wars.
Historically about seven percent.
Source? I'd like to see more on that.
I first read the seven percent figure in "Dictionary of Wars" by George Childs Kohn (http://books.google.com/books). I've since seen the figure in numerous references, differing by a percentage point (up or down) depending on where I saw it.

Prior to the 20th century, in historical times, approximately 40.4 million people were killed in wars. Just in the last century the number is approximately 169 million. The majority of people killed in the 20th century died in secular wars, largest group was in WWII (no surprise there). I find it odd that some people attribute a high percentage (sometimes half) of all wars and war deaths, to religion.

From my studies, the leading cause of war is territorial expansion, and resistance to it. There are other causes of course, including religion.

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Old December 7 2012, 09:33 PM   #159
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Longinus wrote: View Post
Darkwing wrote:
No? It certainly seems to be a nearly religious mania nowadays.
What you mean by this?
The propaganda on the issue of sexual orientation is treated as divine writ, handed down from the mountain.

Let's just say we disagree on that.
Of course we will. But it is factual that he changed, and IMO, not for the better.

Thank you for this enlightening character analysis, I guess.
I hope you actually consider it and learn something about yourself from it. If not, .
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Old December 7 2012, 09:34 PM   #160
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Merry Christmas wrote: View Post
I first read the seven percent figure in "Dictionary of Wars" by George Childs Kohn (http://books.google.com/books). I've since seen the figure in numerous references, differing by a percentage point (up or down) depending on where I saw it.
Thanks, I'll have to look that up. I'd always heard that religion was THE leading cause of war, but of course, no data to back it up.
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Old December 7 2012, 10:14 PM   #161
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Xhiandra wrote: View Post
The fundamentalism of some of this board's posters is both incredibly scary and depressing.
While I would not consider myself a fundamentalist, I do profess a belief in a Supreme Being. How can what has been posted by anyone here so far be classified as "fundamentalism"? Others here believe in God. Why can't they be allowed to say so without being labeled? There has been no advocacy of snake handling, speaking in tongues, self-flagellation, or any of the other things that most people would ascribe to a fundamentalist way of thinking. Some people are unapologetic in their spiritualism. Why should that automatically categorize them as a fundie by your or anyone else's standards?
Wow, hold your straw horses, please.
I have no idea why you want to portray me in a bad light here, but I have said nothing that denotes disrespect or verbal abuse towards theists.

I might live in "heathen lands", but I'm not out of any contact with theists, in fact I went (against my will, but that's another matter) to catholic schools.
I was fed a lot of bible (disbelieved in it all from a young age), I am not unfamiliar with christian dogma.
As a matter of fact, it's interesting you concluded I was an atheist - I didn't say it and my post could easily have been made by a moderate believer.
My catholic entourage certainly wouldn't bat an eyelid (after translation) to any of it.

I respect faith, even though I do not have it nor can really understand it.
But the gnostic theist does not operate on faith, he operates on misinformation.


To answer your question, on this board I've seen:
- Someone refer to the historicity of jesus as having more evidence than the historicity of Caius Iulius (not in this thread) -> that's patently false and evidence of extreme brainwashing; the kind of discourse held by creationists.
In fact, I seem to remember that individual ascribing to creationism (but maybe I misremember).

- The power of prayer held as a proven fact.
Once again, this isn't your average believer statement, this is fundamentalistic.

- The old clich of "Atheist Dogma" being invoked.
Either the user doesn't realise how preposterous it is, in which case a fundamentalist mindset is involved or the user does and it was a troll comment.
That's not very civil.

If the word has pejorative connotations I'm not aware of (not a native english speaker), I'm fine with not using it, but one needs a substitute. Creationist? Not an exact match.
Gnostic theist? Fine by me, but a bit heavy.


Merry Christmas:
Atheism is doubt without belief; dogma is belief without doubt.
"Atheist dogma" isn't "inappropriate"; it's just complete nonsense.

Aside:
The internet does give me insight on how atheists are treated in the US; though: on several US-dominated boards, I often see theists provoke then cry offense when (very measured in this case!) answer comes.
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Old December 8 2012, 02:50 AM   #162
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Darkwing wrote: View Post
The propaganda on the issue of sexual orientation is treated as divine writ, handed down from the mountain.
Yes, that's what a religion does. 'Gays are bad 'cause my god said so.' I hope we can agree that this is bullshit.
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Old December 8 2012, 04:25 AM   #163
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

On the healing power of prayer, it's interesting to see a study that says it was detrimental. I've seen several studies in the past that have shown it to be possibly beneficial. To me, it would make sense that it would be beneficial, even if you don't believe in the God behind the Prayer, if the person being prayed for believes, it could raise their confidence level, and medicines and healing are aided by the patient fighting to heal and having a positive attitude. Hope can sometimes make the difference between healing and dying
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Old December 8 2012, 04:51 AM   #164
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Sindatur wrote: View Post
On the healing power of prayer, it's interesting to see a study that says it was detrimental. I've seen several studies in the past that have shown it to be possibly beneficial. To me, it would make sense that it would be beneficial, even if you don't believe in the God behind the Prayer, if the person being prayed for believes, it could raise their confidence level, and medicines and healing are aided by the patient fighting to heal and having a positive attitude. Hope can sometimes make the difference between healing and dying
I agree it was a surprising result. One would expect some sort of a placebo effect. Maybe it made the patients worried: "Oh shit, I'm so sick that they're praying for a miracle!"
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Old December 8 2012, 08:58 AM   #165
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Re: Why Not A Starfleet Ships Chaplain As A Main Character?

Longinus wrote: View Post
Darkwing wrote: View Post
The propaganda on the issue of sexual orientation is treated as divine writ, handed down from the mountain.
Yes, that's what a religion does. 'Gays are bad 'cause my god said so.' I hope we can agree that this is bullshit.
Also the religion of liberalism and politically correct 'explanations'.
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