RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,124
Posts: 5,401,238
Members: 24,744
Currently online: 630
Newest member: rachaela3

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old December 1 2012, 07:03 PM   #1
Danlav05
Commander
 
Danlav05's Avatar
 
Location: Rutland UK
Starfleet Marine Corps

Are these 'canon'?

There are a few articles out there on the web such as Memory Gamma, however apart from the MACOs they've never featured.

Hve they been in books/comics? Its suggested Colonel West form The Undiscovered Country was a member.


They are a much talked about 'myth', but has even fan films used them? It's an interestingly famous but largly unknown feature of the Trek universe.
Danlav05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1 2012, 07:09 PM   #2
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

Starfleet does have some form of ground troops. We've seen them several times, most notably on DS9.

What they are actually CALLED, on the other hand, is not clear. Could be anything. It hasn't been nailed down yet.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 01:23 AM   #3
The Wormhole
Admiral
 
The Wormhole's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

Canonically, no there are no "Starfleet Marines." The idea has been toyed with, a Marine detachment was originally considered for TOS, but that never materialized. The earliest details for Enterprise had Malcolm Reed listed as a "Starfleet Marine." However, by the time the show went into production he was a regular Starfleet officer.

Behind the scenes info for Trek V says the guys in blue shirts that were on the mission to Nimbus III were Marines, but they were never identified as such on screen.

The only definitive indication we have of ground forces onscreen are the MACOs, and even then we're not completely sure what happened to them after the Federation was formed. They likely were absorbed into Starfleet, given that their uniforms had the command star seen on the TOS uniforms, but beyond that we know nothing.

The black outfit guys on DS9 are an odditiy. While they do seem to be some sort of ground force, they use navy style ranks like the rest of Starfleet.

Colonel West, despite his army rank wears a Starfleet uniform with an Admiral's insignia. He should have a Captain's insignia, since a Colonel is the Army/Marine equivelant of a Navy Captain. Although the novels say he is an Admiral who is referred to as Colonel as a nickname.
__________________
"Internet message boards aren't as funny today as they were ten years ago. I've stopped reading new posts." -The Simpsons 20th anniversary special.

Last edited by The Wormhole; December 2 2012 at 02:16 AM.
The Wormhole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 02:05 AM   #4
LobsterAfternoon
Commander
 
LobsterAfternoon's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

Do we know that the dudes from DS9 aren't just regular Starfleet guys assigned to ground warfare?
LobsterAfternoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 02:08 AM   #5
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

^ I don't think Starfleet would do that. You can't have every officer trained in every line of work. It just doesn't work that way. There must always be specialization. You can't pick starship crew and assign them to ground combat willy-nilly - it'd be like sending a Walmart security guard to fight in Afghanistan.

The guys in the black uniforms could be Starfleet's equivalent of Navy SEALs - naval personnel, but trained in missions like this. I do like the concept of a Starfleet Marine Corps though. I'd prefer to have dedicated ground combat divisions.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 05:33 AM   #6
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

I think Starfleet's security division does have personnel that are Starfleet Marines in everything but name.
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 06:15 AM   #7
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

^ Security officers (i.e. redshirts) are starship crew. They're not meant for ground combat.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 11:22 AM   #8
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

As far as I know, Starfleet Marines exist only in FASA's RPG sourcebooks and maybe some fanfiction.

IIRC, Star Trek Online has the Enterprise's MACOs still active and a separate entity in the early 25th century.

There are no mention of marines in the Trek novelverse.
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 02:14 PM   #9
C.E. Evans
Vice Admiral
 
C.E. Evans's Avatar
 
Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Security officers (i.e. redshirts) are starship crew. They're not meant for ground combat.
But they've seen doing such during away missions.

I think the only real difference between starship security personnel and ground troops is that the latter is generally deployed in much larger numbers on a planetary surface and may have specialized equipment. Otherwise, they're probably interchangeable.
__________________
"Everybody wants to rule the world..."
C.E. Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 04:49 PM   #10
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

In TFF there was a ground force used on Nimbus III who had dark blue trim to the uniforms, rather than the dark green of Security at the time.

Personally I avoid using Marines in my fan fic, as security personnel will be trained well enough to handle just about anything the galaxy has to throw at them. But that's just me.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 04:55 PM   #11
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
There are no mention of marines in the Trek novelverse.
There is at least one that does, The Forgotten War.

Me, I'm sticking with the suggestion that there are Starfleet Marines. I know it's not canon, but the hell with that. It just makes the most sense. Furthermore, I suggest that the TOS incarnation of them, wears the same kind of uniform as the rest of Starfleet, but in black. Don't tell me that wouldn't look cool.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 05:23 PM   #12
JoeZhang
Vice Admiral
 
JoeZhang's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

Why are we calling them Marines not Soldiers? As all of the combat situations we see are more representative of Soldiers in the generic sense rather than marines in the specific sense (if that makes sense)?
JoeZhang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 06:11 PM   #13
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

^ Well, Starfleet *is* a navy. And thus any ground combat division that is derived from it, is more likely to be Marines.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 06:58 PM   #14
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Why are we calling them Marines not Soldiers?
For safety. If you ever want to start a fist fight with a marine, look him in the eye and call him a "soldier."

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I suggest that the TOS incarnation of them, wears the same kind of uniform as the rest of Starfleet, but in black. Don't tell me that wouldn't look cool.
Or Green.

I wrote a fanfic once that when a younger Kirk was assigned to the long term survey of Neural (Tyree's planet), he was transferred TDY to the infantry, because they do the long term surveys, while the fleet does "scan and dash" investigations. This is why we sometimes would see Kirk wearing that green wrap around shirt, he's "entitled" to wear the color.

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
security personnel will be trained well enough to handle just about anything the galaxy has to throw at them
I think that the security personnel we see are basically military police. And while like modern day MP's they can be employed in combat, it isn't their specialty. A security guard might be able to (in an emergency) take the helm, but not their primary training.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 07:43 PM   #15
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Starfleet Marine Corps

^ Green? I think I'd prefer black as the Marine division color. Green looks too much like the greenish-gold of command.

And I don't see Marines wearing tunics as ridiculous looking as Kirk's wraparound.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:39 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.