RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,219
Posts: 5,405,183
Members: 24,762
Currently online: 491
Newest member: jeb1138

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Time’s Orphan
By: Michelle on Aug 30

September-October Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Lee Passes
By: T'Bonz on Aug 29

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 30 2012, 11:43 PM   #46
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

propita wrote: View Post
Total agreement here, except that its both conservatives and liberals who should be working to address this, so that the money that IS spent, is spent right. "Right" as in "not wasted."
Ideally, sure. But once a health care system is in place, I don't think it's unfair to ask that the minority that opposed it to take a lead in fine-tuning it to the maximum benefit of all.

And now that the Dems finally have a supermajority in CA's legislature, there's bigger fish to fry than occasional misuses of the system by certain folks (and again, I definitely think the police should aggressively prosecute blatantly fraudulent ambulance requests). I'd rather they focus on restoring economic justice to the state budget than interfering with poor moms who want the right baby formula for their infants.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1 2012, 05:50 PM   #47
propita
Rear Admiral
 
Location: fresno, ca, us
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

See? I'm an idealist! Co-workers called me and Hubby pessimists when we gave our opinions about upcoming "all-hands" meetings, and we were nicknamed "Gloom" and "Doom." We told them that we were not "pessimists" but "disappointed idealists," wanting the best possible outcome from the facts at hand, but never expecting it, based on past experiences.
propita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 04:03 AM   #48
CoveTom
Rear Admiral
 
Location: CoveTom
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Absolute nonsense with no factual basis.
Interesting. So you think that the government has sufficient resources that it can provide unlimited health care for everyone with no restrictions? On what do you base that?
CoveTom is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 06:21 AM   #49
Sector 7
Rear Admiral
 
Sector 7's Avatar
 
Location: McCrory/Hitler's Republic of North Carolina
Send a message via AIM to Sector 7
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Darth Turkducken wrote: View Post
SonOfMogh wrote: View Post
Reading this thread reminds me that America is fucked up.
I weep for America.
And yet other countries always ask us to do the world's dirty work.

America's system may not be perfect, but much of the civilized world has copied it. I joined the fight to provide healthcare to everyone. In America, people can band together to accomplish great things... even if it takes awhile to get it done.
__________________
“When all Americans are treated as equal, no matter who they are or whom they love, we are all more free.” -Pres. Obama
"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon." -Pres. Clinton
Sector 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 08:19 PM   #50
Kelthaz
Rear Admiral
 
Kelthaz's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Absolute nonsense with no factual basis.
Interesting. So you think that the government has sufficient resources that it can provide unlimited health care for everyone with no restrictions? On what do you base that?
The success of universal health care systems in Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands for one?
__________________
"Who are you?! And how did you get in here?!"

"I'm the locksmith. And... I'm the locksmith."
Kelthaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 09:22 PM   #51
Gotham Central
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Chicago, IL
View Gotham Central's Twitter Profile
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
Shaw wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post

Absolute nonsense that isn't even a little bit true. Obama wanted a public option and fought hard for it. He didn't even have the votes for that, not even from his own party, even though he said there would be no healthcare reform without it. Congress called his bluff and he had to drop it, which resulted in the individual mandate instead. To say we didn't get single-payer because Obama didn't "fight hard enough" is just factually wrong. It wasn't going to happen, not with the makeup of Congress at the time. Sorry.
Actually, Obama did have the votes for a single payer system but wanted a bipartisan solution. The (single) Republican that Obama targeted was Olympia Snowe. The plan was watered down until she was willing to vote for it in the Senate Finance Committee (which she did), but then she voted against it in the final senate vote (making it pretty much a wasted effort and a lost opportunity for the rest of us).
Exactly. I'm amazed by what people like to see in their own head.

Obama had the 60 votes, and the house. He wanted to work with the Republicans who didn't want health care, who don't want to work with Obama. Obama wasted time instead of actually fighting for what he supposedly wanted, he backed down and watered the bill down for no reason.

Obama wanted health care reform, Republicans didn't. Trying to do some BS on "working together" was and still is a waste of time.
I'm not understanding what you're talking about. As has been pointed out, there were 60 Democratic leaning votes in the Senate, but there were NEVER 60 Democratic supporters of single payer health care. I will remind you that folks like Joe Liberman, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln etc were part of that 60 and they fought tooth and nail against even the modest proposals of the President. Add to that the fact that Joe Liberman was on some sort of vendetta against liberal Democrats because they primaried him out of the party and nearly cost him his seat. In fact, Liberman actually proposed a modest adjustment to Medicare that would have added millions of people to the rolls and could have been a back door to single payer. Liberals actually liked his proposal and came out in support of it as a good compromise. Upon learning that the liberal wing LOVED the idea Liberman promptly scuttled it and refused to support his own proposal. He did it out of spite.

There was so much going on with the whole health care debate that people have forgotten that there was no consensus position on anything. The democrats were getting into fights with members of their own party/caucus.

The Blue Dogs and Liberman killed the more liberal ideas in the legislation and thus forced the republicans to run even further to the Right just to find something to disagree with.
__________________
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia

Green Day
Gotham Central is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2 2012, 09:34 PM   #52
Gotham Central
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Chicago, IL
View Gotham Central's Twitter Profile
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post

Who the hell are you to decide who deserves life-saving medical treatment and who doesn't? Your child at home gets a little mouthy, so you cut off her insulin until she behaves?
For real. I do not want someone arbitrarily deciding who "deserves" medical care and who doesn't.
But that's exactly what will happen when health care is "free". There will eventually not be enough money to pay for everything for everyone, so someone will have to decide who gets what, and how much of it. That someone will be the bureaucracy created by the new system.

It will cost a fortune to run, it will be unbelievably inefficient, and will be accountable to no one but itself.

Deny it all you want, but just watch.
I've heard conservatives spew this bile before. The thing that they love to gloss over is that their little scenario HAPPENS RIGHT NOW!

The difference between rationing in a government run system vs a private system is that the government will ration resources based on NEED. Private systems ration care based on the ability to pay. So in countries with UHC, EVERYONE gets adequate care even if most people don't get the luxury care that you find in the US. In the US some people get first class medicine of the future...other people get nothing.

It seems to me that if you accept that medical care is a scarce resource...which conservatives universally agree on...then it seems reasonable that the best way to divvy up those resources would be to ensure that the people most in need get first crack at care. Instead what we have is a situation where people with the most money move to the front of the line and consume as much of the resources as they afford. Those with nothing get next to nothing. Even those with insurance can be denied coverage by insurance adjusters and in the worst case scenarios can be dropped entirely.

How is the current system better than one based on need?
__________________
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia

Green Day
Gotham Central is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 12:24 AM   #53
Squiggy
LORD SHIT SUPREME
 
Squiggy's Avatar
 
Location: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
View Squiggy's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Squiggy
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
CoveTom wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Absolute nonsense with no factual basis.
Interesting. So you think that the government has sufficient resources that it can provide unlimited health care for everyone with no restrictions? On what do you base that?
The success of universal health care systems in Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands for one?
Well, besides all that...what have the Romans ever done for us?
__________________
ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!
Squiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 01:10 AM   #54
jayrath
Fleet Captain
 
Location: West Hollywood, Calif., USA
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

As has been proven so often, preventive care saves many, many dollars over emergency care.

Only emergency care cannot be refused -- and by then it's hugely expensive, and often too late.

Universal coverage works well for the rest of the world, and at far lower cost with far greater success. In what way are Americans so special that we must refuse even the idea of it?

The insurance industry essentially has a license to print money. I've worked in medical software. You cannot believe the obscene waste -- all paid for by someone's health premiums. It disgusts me.
jayrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 01:40 AM   #55
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
CoveTom wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Absolute nonsense with no factual basis.
Interesting. So you think that the government has sufficient resources that it can provide unlimited health care for everyone with no restrictions? On what do you base that?
The success of universal health care systems in Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands for one?
You and your irrefutable evidence.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 03:37 AM   #56
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

propita wrote: View Post
No, they don't have to wait. The ambulance company was sued in the past for doing just that, so they answer every call. And laws were enacted, not for the whiners but for the legitimate errors by medical personnel, which carry over to allow the whiners to abuse them.
California imposes an affirmative duty to act with tort liability and waives sovereign immunity? That seems a bit odd. I know California tort law is more willing to impose duties to act, but it still seems they can make legitimate decisions of where to allocate their resources if they don't have any to spare.

bigdaddy wrote: View Post
Obama had the 60 votes, and the house.
Actually, that's not true. They had 59 votes, but they never had 60 able to vote (the timing of Franking and Kennedy being key here). And that suggests people like Sen. Machin (who I think voted against the ACA) would have voted for a single-payer option.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 03:41 AM   #57
DanCPA
Admiral
 
DanCPA's Avatar
 
Location: TrekBBS C/O 2001
Send a message via AIM to DanCPA Send a message via Yahoo to DanCPA
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

jayrath wrote: View Post
In what way are Americans so special that we must refuse even the idea of it?
I wish I could reply, but this isn't TNZ
__________________
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference -
DanCPA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 04:53 AM   #58
propita
Rear Admiral
 
Location: fresno, ca, us
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
propita wrote: View Post
No, they don't have to wait. The ambulance company was sued in the past for doing just that, so they answer every call. And laws were enacted, not for the whiners but for the legitimate errors by medical personnel, which carry over to allow the whiners to abuse them.
California imposes an affirmative duty to act with tort liability and waives sovereign immunity? That seems a bit odd. I know California tort law is more willing to impose duties to act, but it still seems they can make legitimate decisions of where to allocate their resources if they don't have any to spare.
Private ambulance company, contracted with the city or county (can't remember which), who got sued and is now gunshy of turning anyone down. Cya to an extreme. Can't blame the ambulance company. I blame the abusers of the system, and the lack of protection for the ambulance company. It's understandable, though, because a protective law can be abused by by an unscrupulous company, just as the lack of law is abused by the "patients." A no-win situation as long as someone is willing to say "fuck you I want what I want"--and those people will always be around.
propita is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 05:08 AM   #59
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

It still strikes me as dumb and could be remedied in a better way.

Any idea how the lawsuit ended up?
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3 2012, 05:47 AM   #60
CoveTom
Rear Admiral
 
Location: CoveTom
Re: Do the Homeless Get Free Medical Treatment at American Hospitals?

Kelthaz wrote: View Post
CoveTom wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Absolute nonsense with no factual basis.
Interesting. So you think that the government has sufficient resources that it can provide unlimited health care for everyone with no restrictions? On what do you base that?
The success of universal health care systems in Canada, Australia, United Kingdom, Norway, Sweden, Germany, Austria, France, Iceland, Switzerland, Japan, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands for one?
So this systems place no restrictions what-so-ever on health care? There's not a single treatment, medication, or procedure that is ever denied? For anyone? Because that's what I was asking about.
CoveTom is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:29 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.