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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old November 25 2012, 10:45 AM   #31
Guy Gardener
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

I had a flatmate from Pakistan, a country where it is permissible to marry first cousins, and we're yelling at him for being a sick fuck for suggesting that a set of first cousins from "this" side of the world should hook up, the girl cousin is almost vomiting and the boy cousin was winding up to punch him, and I'm saying "Just shut up, you're wrong, go and have a piss before Adam decks you."

It's a question of geography.
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Old November 25 2012, 10:52 AM   #32
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

You can marry your first cousin in Australia.

You can also legally marry your niece, nephew, uncle or aunt!

But you cannot marry a sibling by adoption.
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Old November 25 2012, 11:10 AM   #33
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

You understand that when they were writing the Australian Criminal Code, 200 years ago,that they must have got lazy or drunk, because why on earth should they erect laws against shit that no one would possibly do?

Like us, and the rest of the colonies, your founders mostly cut and past from the British Criminal Code, but lets face it, that fuck is huge and mostly stupid and arcane.

Cut and past in 1790 AD consists of yelling at hundreds of poor people with quills, and then yelling some more until they get it right.

Scrooge treated Bob Cratchit like that for a reason.
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Old November 25 2012, 11:26 AM   #34
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

I knew someone who was married to her half brother. Everyone assumed it was an immigration scam but then they had a baby. The kid had several of his fingers bifurcated at the top knuckle into two fingers.

She refused to have this fixed because "it would be denying who he is".
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Old November 25 2012, 11:31 AM   #35
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

And if the surgery didn't cost 80 thousand dollars?
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Old November 25 2012, 11:34 AM   #36
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

It's socialized medicine, it would have been free.
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Old November 25 2012, 12:09 PM   #37
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

I assumed that since it was technically elective surgery that it wouldn't be covered by the government just like they don't cover boobjobs and tummy tucks.

It's a weird line.

But then finding a receptive charity wouldn't have been difficult.
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Old November 25 2012, 12:19 PM   #38
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Kid could never type. Picture the top knuckle branching off into two top fingers with nails etc.. I think she was under pressure from social services to have it done, but she was a paranoid eastern bloc person who wasn't going to let it happen.
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Old November 30 2012, 03:07 PM   #39
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Getting back on topic...

I really think the show was doing well during the Kes era, and then when Seven came on board the writer's just decided to let Voyager coast on it's own momentum and not put hat much effort into the show; the reason for all hose stupid Janeway/Seven episodes that just got boring.
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Old November 30 2012, 03:39 PM   #40
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Worse.

We lost a sweet, innocent, caring character, who was seeing the wonders of the space for the first time, replace by a cold, distant and overly-aggressive one, whose journey back to being human was far too easy (on but she has massive boobs, so that makes it all better).

Add to that all other characters were ignored and dumbed down in favour of Seven.
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Old December 1 2012, 04:15 AM   #41
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Sorry but how was Kes seeing the wonders of space if she was spending most of her time in sick bay and hydroponic, the two rooms on the ship with no windows? Half of the creatures, aliens or planets Voyager visited, Kes never saw. She wasn't even exploring the ship itself. She had never seen a starship, much less been on one and she wasn't curious about ANY of it. Neelix showed more interest in how Voyager's systems worked, the many cultures onboard and culinary cuisine than she was. Too me that's one of the biggest flaws with the character. She was supposed to be overly curious about everything but she never was. They explained in the first ep. that where she comes from there are no transporters, no holodecks, warp drives and the replicators only make one recipe. Grown adults in our day and age are fascinated by such things as an iPad, new cuisine and just to travel to the next State or country to see something new. How is a young girl who's lived underground in a closed society and hasn't even seen the sun not curious or fascinated by Voyager or anything else around her? The holodeck alone should have kept her in wonder for at least a few weeks.

That is one reason IMHO is why Voyager got better when Seven joined.
We got a character that we could watch grow and experience things thus creating story, over one that wasn't.
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Old December 1 2012, 05:10 AM   #42
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

exodus wrote: View Post
Sorry but how was Kes seeing the wonders of space if she was spending most of her time in sick bay and hydroponic, the two rooms on the ship with no windows? Half of the creatures, aliens or planets Voyager visited, Kes never saw. She wasn't even exploring the ship itself. She had never seen a starship, much less been on one and she wasn't curious about ANY of it. Neelix showed more interest in how Voyager's systems worked, the many cultures onboard and culinary cuisine than she was. Too me that's one of the biggest flaws with the character. She was supposed to be overly curious about everything but she never was. They explained in the first ep. that where she comes from there are no transporters, no holodecks, warp drives and the replicators only make one recipe. Grown adults in our day and age are fascinated by such things as an iPad, new cuisine and just to travel to the next State or country to see something new. How is a young girl who's lived underground in a closed society and hasn't even seen the sun not curious or fascinated by Voyager or anything else around her? The holodeck alone should have kept her in wonder for at least a few weeks.
It's because if you only live 9 years you use up your wonderment phase real quick and move on to the jaded phase. In Fury she was in the fuck you life, you screwed me over phase. After that she hit zen like resignation, which is when everyone thinks you are incredibly wise.
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Old December 1 2012, 05:42 PM   #43
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Kes wasn'st spending all her time in sickbay or in the Hydroponic Bay. She spent a lot of time on the bridge hand had her fair share of being on away missions and visiting other planets.

When it comes to exploring the ship and the holodeck, don't forget that it was one and a half month between "Caretaker (Stardate 48315.6=26 April 2371) and "Parallax (Stardate 48439.7=10 June 2371). She had a lot of time to explore the ship and the holodeck during those weeks.

Not to mention that there were no similar development of Neelix and the Maquis characters either. They joined the Voyager crew and BOOM! Already in "Parallax" they were all settled in in their roles at the ship.

Comparing Kes with Seven is unfair because the show shifted focus when Seven came in and became the main character of the show. Kes was never expected to be the main character in the same way Seven was.

Kes was a great character who personified the spirit of Star Trek with her will to learn and explore. That spirit disappeared when she was kicked out.

Not to mention that the show was better in the first three seasons when all the characters had their fair share of the spotlight. In the later seasons, it was all about Seven, The Doctor and Janeway.
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Old December 1 2012, 07:29 PM   #44
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

Seven just had a lot more................depth. (Sorry)
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Old December 1 2012, 10:21 PM   #45
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Re: Did Voyager get better or worse when Kes was replaced with 7 of 9?

It was really more than just replacing one character with another, it was a total shift in storytelling that changed the dynamics of the series--as many have said, it became the Janeway/Seven/Doctor show.

One wonders if Seven was treated the same by the writers as Kes, where all of the characters had equal time, would Seven still have been as effective?

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