RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,352
Posts: 5,354,920
Members: 24,623
Currently online: 666
Newest member: niko

TrekToday headlines

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 29 2012, 10:46 PM   #31
st.barthgirl
Lieutenant
 
Location: I Believe in Dog
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

Another reason that Babies all look a bit "less" like their alien parents might be explained Biologically: The Birth canal cannot accommodate a bunch of crags and points and horned things... Birth has got to be easy on Mom And Baby. Babies are designed to be mushy and squishy- streamlined and cartilaginous.

In Species whose Adults are Thorny, Scaly, Horned, or whose Smoothness is Compromised in some other way, the Newly birthed tend to be smooth, regardless (at least in mammalian & marsupial species- and in nurse sharks who give live births, etc). Their Morphology tends to change significantly in Adolescence, Blooming in Early Adulthood.

Even in Aliens, who are likely to be 'less compatible with Humans than a Chrysanthemum', those capable of producing Hybrids with Humanoids might be inferred to have Female organs and birth canals and development similar to humanoids.... theirs wouldn't have to accommodate all manner of Spiky things during Birth...

i'm not a Paleontologist {nor have i played one on TV}... but i think i recall that more than a few 'species' of dinosaur were crossed off the score sheet recently- when it was determined that previously identified 'Separate' species were found to be of the 'identical' species. The confusion was based on the fact that their fossils- in varying ages of maturity from neonate to juvenile thru adult- showed features that were absent in the Young, developed in the Old.

It makes sense to conserve body mass at birth, too... many 'showy' features aren't really necessary physiologically until one must attract a mate, defend one's self, etc- at a time far from birth.

i think i might have read recently that the laws regarding Infant Actors and Models had been amended... that many make-ups or effects were simply not allowed- and that one of the weird combinations that was permitted to be slathered all over them was cream cheese and jelly- presumably to duplicate childbirth. bizarre.

the theories of Parallel and Convergent Evolutions might be brought to bear here, as well~ which i think are sound. but i'm not a scientist.

Just thinkin' out loud...

i look forward to reading your work, Christopher. I'll check out your website tonight.

Last edited by st.barthgirl; November 30 2012 at 03:05 AM.
st.barthgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1 2012, 01:22 AM   #32
st.barthgirl
Lieutenant
 
Location: I Believe in Dog
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

i just today thought of the issue of Hybrid Vigor. i wonder if that's ever been seen in the star trek universe? The principle by which Ligers and Tions and polar/grizzlies are generally larger and more robust than their Parents?And why many mixed breed dogs are healthier than Purebred?
st.barthgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 1 2012, 01:35 AM   #33
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

st.barthgirl wrote: View Post
i just today thought of the issue of Hybrid Vigor. i wonder if that's ever been seen in the star trek universe?
Spock seems to be exceptionally intelligent, strong, and telepathically adept even compared to other Vulcans.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 1 2012, 01:41 AM   #34
st.barthgirl
Lieutenant
 
Location: I Believe in Dog
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

Christopher wrote: View Post
st.barthgirl wrote: View Post
i just today thought of the issue of Hybrid Vigor. i wonder if that's ever been seen in the star trek universe?
Spock seems to be exceptionally intelligent, strong, and telepathically adept even compared to other Vulcans.
Ummmmm......... So........ i'll just step out of the room for a moment to bang myself on the head.....

Thanks for completing my thought!
st.barthgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4 2012, 12:16 AM   #35
Sector 7
Rear Admiral
 
Sector 7's Avatar
 
Location: McCrory/Hitler's Republic of North Carolina
Send a message via AIM to Sector 7
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Gotham Central wrote: View Post
Hell even the Kelvans from the Andromeda galaxy looked totally human.
No, they transformed themselves into a human shape so they could operate a spaceship designed for humanoids. Spock got a telepathic impression of their true form as "immense beings" with "a hundred limbs that resemble tentacles." It was a vital story point that the Kelvans had trouble adjusting to the human forms they'd adopted, and that Kirk & crew defeated them by exploiting their unfamiliarity with human emotions and appetites.
Agree completely.
On the other hand, the Mudd's Planet androids did say that their creators from the Andromeda Galaxy were "quite humanoid." Implicitly the androids were made in those Andromedans' image. Although I prefer to think that they were more approximately humanoid and that Harry had the androids remodel their appearance to a more human one.


The race that we see in "The Chase" does not fully explain this since they, while humanoid, were not human...and their genetic sequence leads to the Romulans/Vulcans, Klingons and Cardassians as well. So why would you get more humans than anything else?
I like to use neoteny as an excuse. Lots of species' evolutionary processes tend toward neoteny -- that is, species evolving to retain formerly juvenile traits into adulthood. It's been said that humans are basically neotenous chimpanzees -- we retain the large heads, small muzzles, neuroplasticity, and so forth that chimps only have in their youth. And if you look at the various Trek-universe infants we've seen, most humanoid babies tend to look more human than their adult forms, with the more elaborate ridges and other anatomical features growing in later (which is, of course, because it wouldn't be practical or humane to subject a live infant to an arduous prosthetic makeup process -- although by "Demons"/'Terra Prime" they were able to do pointed ears with CGI). So if Trekverse humanoids tended toward neoteny in their evolution, they would often become increasingly humanlike as well.
Short answer, Humans are Horny! The human sex drive had humans proliferating like crazy...
__________________
“When all Americans are treated as equal, no matter who they are or whom they love, we are all more free.” -Pres. Obama
"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon." -Pres. Clinton
Sector 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4 2012, 12:26 AM   #36
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

^Umm, I think you misunderstood the question. It wasn't about the abundance of actual Homo sapiens from Earth, but about why so many humanoid aliens happen to look just like humans or nearly so, rather than just like Klingons or just like Cardassians or what-have-you.

Although, thanks to the wonders of recycled prosthetics, we have seen some alien species that resembled each other.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old December 4 2012, 09:40 AM   #37
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

Is that species or cultures, though? Humans and Halkans resemble each other, but we don't know if these are two separate species or just two populations of humans. Humans and Platonians resemble each other to an equal measure, but there are key differences that might make them two distinct species. Humans and TOS Klingons look alike, too, but are definitely two separate species. And Zephram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri is explicitly human.

So, are Dopterians and Kobheerians two distinct species, or do some Kobheerians just live on a world called Dopteria (and some others on Talaria)?

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2012, 03:52 AM   #38
Gotham Central
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Chicago, IL
View Gotham Central's Twitter Profile
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

Timo wrote: View Post
Is that species or cultures, though? Humans and Halkans resemble each other, but we don't know if these are two separate species or just two populations of humans. Humans and Platonians resemble each other to an equal measure, but there are key differences that might make them two distinct species. Humans and TOS Klingons look alike, too, but are definitely two separate species. And Zephram Cochrane of Alpha Centauri is explicitly human.

So, are Dopterians and Kobheerians two distinct species, or do some Kobheerians just live on a world called Dopteria (and some others on Talaria)?

Timo Saloniemi
But that's the point, there are ALOT of species that are indistinguishable from humans. Even if you eliminate all of those with subtle differences like the Trill or Bajorans, there are species that look exactly like humans but are clearly not from Earth. For instance Lazarus, Apollo, the Fabrini, people of Beta III, Eminiar (we never see anyone from Vendikar), Capella IV, Argelius II (if not for the Empathic thing I would have written this off as an independent former Terran colony), Ekos/Zeon, Omega IV, Sigma Draconis, Sigma Iotia, Scalos, Elas, Gideon, Sarpedion etc...and that's just in TOS.
__________________
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia

Green Day
Gotham Central is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2012, 02:16 PM   #39
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

A species indistinguishable from humans externally may be a different species. One indistinguishable by a tricorder is not. One wonders how many of those "not from Earth" humans were actually bona fide members of H.sapiens who had just ended up off-Earth for one reason or another.

In any case, we don't know if humans originated on Earth. Supposedly Earth even in Star Trek has the appropriate fossil track record - but it need not establish the birth of H.sapiens here. Might be just a case of a humanoid species or three emerging here, and then being replaced by an imported sapient species that isn't really related to the three it replaces (but the galaxy-spanning genetic commonality of "The Chase" fame throws the researchers off).

Or then there's no fossil record to speak of, and Trek paleontologists are just guessing. We do know they are saying that humans come from Earth even in the 24th century, as per VOY "Distant Origin", but that doesn't automatically make them right.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5 2012, 02:24 PM   #40
Gotham Central
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Chicago, IL
View Gotham Central's Twitter Profile
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

Timo wrote: View Post
A species indistinguishable from humans externally may be a different species. One indistinguishable by a tricorder is not. One wonders how many of those "not from Earth" humans were actually bona fide members of H.sapiens who had just ended up off-Earth for one reason or another.

In any case, we don't know if humans originated on Earth. Supposedly Earth even in Star Trek has the appropriate fossil track record - but it need not establish the birth of H.sapiens here. Might be just a case of a humanoid species or three emerging here, and then being replaced by an imported sapient species that isn't really related to the three it replaces (but the galaxy-spanning genetic commonality of "The Chase" fame throws the researchers off).

Or then there's no fossil record to speak of, and Trek paleontologists are just guessing. We do know they are saying that humans come from Earth even in the 24th century, as per VOY "Distant Origin", but that doesn't automatically make them right.

Timo Saloniemi
"All Good Things" pretty much puts that to rest since the whole point of the episode was that the anti-time anomaly was large enough in the past to prevent the basic molecules of life from ever bonding on primeval earth. Thus preventing the rise of the human race.
__________________
Well maybe I'm the faggot America.
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda.
Now everybody do the propaganda.
And sing along in the age of paranoia

Green Day
Gotham Central is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6 2012, 10:53 AM   #41
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: Why no comment on the number of human species?

...Insofar as we can trust Q. (Would you?)

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.