Insurrection

los2188 · November 29 2012, 07:07 PM

There's something about Insurrection that I've always kind of wondered about. The Ba'ku weren't indigenous to that planet, but obviously they benefited from the "fountain of youth" on that planet. If the Ba'ku were so...enlightened and nice, for lack of better words, why wouldn't they just share the planet with others for the purpose of helping others? I mean they are a population of 600. They wouldn't even take up a fourth of the planet. Why not have their small area, and open up maybe 50% of the other side of the planet where the sick can come for help for medical reasons?

EyalM · November 29 2012, 07:37 PM

Do we actually know that they didn't want others on their planet?
There is a reference to the Sona being too ill to benefit from the planet naturally, which is why they needed to harvest the rings. That implies that the option of settling somewhere else on the planet at least came up.
And then there's the Quark deleted scene where Picard decides for everyone else that there will be no SPAs there. What a jerk.

Sandoval · November 29 2012, 07:40 PM

los2188 wrote:

There's something about Insurrection that I've always kind of wondered about. The Ba'ku weren't indigenous to that planet, but obviously they benefited from the "fountain of youth" on that planet. If the Ba'ku were so...enlightened and nice, for lack of better words, why wouldn't they just share the planet with others for the purpose of helping others? I mean they are a population of 600. They wouldn't even take up a fourth of the planet. Why not have their small area, and open up maybe 50% of the other side of the planet where the sick can come for help for medical reasons?

They were selfish.

SchwEnt · November 29 2012, 07:41 PM

I agree. What the hell kind of people are they?

Six hundred people claiming a whole planet for themselves. If it was solely to maintain their agrarian hippie commune, that'd be one thing. They want everyone to stay out of their backyard just because.

But to deny incredible medical benefits to the galaxy for the sake of upsetting their lifestyle is selfish. What total scumbag dicks!

Sandoval · November 29 2012, 07:42 PM

SchwEnt wrote:

I agree. What the hell kind of people are they?

Complete bastards.

R. Star · November 29 2012, 08:00 PM

For being the people we're supposed to sympathize with in the film, they really were self-entitled jerks.

They spout nonsensical phrases that imply moral superiority where none exists, they exile anyone who disagrees with them, which is basically a death sentence given the immortality, they don't even entertain the notion of moving to help billions of people with the medical science, and as much as they believe in pacifism, they're hypocritical in having no objections to having lackeys fight on their behalf.

Even when Aniij just pompously flops down in the boat, you figure she just may as well spout out, "row slaves." Then at the send when the "good" Sona return home, well too bad they're still gonna die like it was said earlier. Yeah to an immortal race a couple years of putting up with their exiled relatives isn't too bad since they're gonna die anyways. They get to live in hippy utopia, the Federation doesn't get the medical technology which could save billions during the middle of a destructive war, and the Federation have actively made an enemy during that said war. But Picard gets to shag the Baku chick, so it's a happy ending.

SchwEnt · November 29 2012, 08:22 PM

Right on. Screw the Baku, those scumbags.

And then making it worse, Picard and crew are the ones defending these jerks.

bigdaddy · November 29 2012, 08:22 PM

How would they know if you make a settlement on the other side of the planet?

Sandoval · November 29 2012, 08:35 PM

bigdaddy wrote:

How would they know if you make a settlement on the other side of the planet?

Mystical powers obviously.

los2188 · November 29 2012, 08:37 PM

bigdaddy wrote:

How would they know if you make a settlement on the other side of the planet?

I'm talking about the Ba'ku actively letting people (not that they could actually stop people from coming) settle on the planet. People requesting from the Ba'ku to be able to live there with their knowledge, but wanting to let the Ba'ku still do their thing and just settling on another side of the planet or something. They should have listened to Spock. Apparently, the needs of the many did not outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.

Hartzilla2007 · November 29 2012, 09:57 PM

Sandoval wrote:

los2188 wrote:

There's something about Insurrection that I've always kind of wondered about. The Ba'ku weren't indigenous to that planet, but obviously they benefited from the "fountain of youth" on that planet. If the Ba'ku were so...enlightened and nice, for lack of better words, why wouldn't they just share the planet with others for the purpose of helping others? I mean they are a population of 600. They wouldn't even take up a fourth of the planet. Why not have their small area, and open up maybe 50% of the other side of the planet where the sick can come for help for medical reasons?

They were selfish.

Wait they were asked at some point?

When did this happen in the film?

All I remember is the typical corrupt admiral who is always the bad guy in these situations doing the typical corrupt admiral bad guy things, such as hiding what he plans to do and his allies shooting Data for finding out about it, then trying to get Picard to kill Data to keep him quiet, and planning to kidnap the natives and never let them know what was going on.

BillJ · November 29 2012, 10:11 PM

The whole movie makes no sense.

Why even bring an unknown element (Data) on a top secret mission like this? Why did you need people on the ground doing scans when sensors have been shown to give incredible accuracy from orbit? Why hide a spaceship with transporters and a cloak in a lake?

Dougherty deserved to die for his sheer incompetence and Picard should've been drummed out of the service for continuously disobeying orders.

One of the dumbest fucking movies I've ever seen. They had an interesting concept but fucked it up just about every way imaginable.

jayrath · November 30 2012, 03:28 AM

It's a retread of "Who Watches the Watchers," or whatever the TNG title was. Pretty loopy on TV, but still better done there. 'Nough said.

sonak · November 30 2012, 05:16 AM

this gets brought up a lot. The movie fails because the "central dilemma" is stupid and the Baku are selfish and unsympathetic. Therefore there are no stakes to care about with them.

"but, but... 600 selfish non-native space hippies might get inconvenienced!"

yeah, great narrative hook, there.

Oh, and the lame, juvenile humor doesn't help the movie either.

Melakon · November 30 2012, 06:35 AM

sonak wrote:

Oh, and the lame, juvenile humor doesn't help the movie either.

"And have you noticed how your boobs have started to firm up?"

What was Michael Piller thinking? Or drinking? Maybe that line was Rick Berman's contribution.

November 29 2012, 07:07 PM	#1
los2188 Commander Location: North Carolina	Insurrection There's something about Insurrection that I've always kind of wondered about. The Ba'ku weren't indigenous to that planet, but obviously they benefited from the "fountain of youth" on that planet. If the Ba'ku were so...enlightened and nice, for lack of better words, why wouldn't they just share the planet with others for the purpose of helping others? I mean they are a population of 600. They wouldn't even take up a fourth of the planet. Why not have their small area, and open up maybe 50% of the other side of the planet where the sick can come for help for medical reasons? __________________ Darling, you remain as aesthetically pleasing as the first day we met. I believe I am the most fortunate sentient in this sector of the galaxy.

November 29 2012, 07:37 PM	#2
EyalM Captain Location: Haifa	Re: Insurrection Do we actually know that they didn't want others on their planet? There is a reference to the Sona being too ill to benefit from the planet naturally, which is why they needed to harvest the rings. That implies that the option of settling somewhere else on the planet at least came up. And then there's the Quark deleted scene where Picard decides for everyone else that there will be no SPAs there. What a jerk. __________________ Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace ’accidentally’ with ’repeatedly’ and replace ’dog’ with ’son.’

November 29 2012, 07:41 PM	#4
SchwEnt Fleet Captain	Re: Insurrection I agree. What the hell kind of people are they? Six hundred people claiming a whole planet for themselves. If it was solely to maintain their agrarian hippie commune, that'd be one thing. They want everyone to stay out of their backyard just because. But to deny incredible medical benefits to the galaxy for the sake of upsetting their lifestyle is selfish. What total scumbag dicks!

November 29 2012, 08:00 PM	#6
R. Star Commodore Location: Terra 3	Re: Insurrection For being the people we're supposed to sympathize with in the film, they really were self-entitled jerks. They spout nonsensical phrases that imply moral superiority where none exists, they exile anyone who disagrees with them, which is basically a death sentence given the immortality, they don't even entertain the notion of moving to help billions of people with the medical science, and as much as they believe in pacifism, they're hypocritical in having no objections to having lackeys fight on their behalf. Even when Aniij just pompously flops down in the boat, you figure she just may as well spout out, "row slaves." Then at the send when the "good" Sona return home, well too bad they're still gonna die like it was said earlier. Yeah to an immortal race a couple years of putting up with their exiled relatives isn't too bad since they're gonna die anyways. They get to live in hippy utopia, the Federation doesn't get the medical technology which could save billions during the middle of a destructive war, and the Federation have actively made an enemy during that said war. But Picard gets to shag the Baku chick, so it's a happy ending. __________________ "I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams

November 29 2012, 08:22 PM	#7
SchwEnt Fleet Captain	Re: Insurrection Right on. Screw the Baku, those scumbags. And then making it worse, Picard and crew are the ones defending these jerks.

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November 29 2012, 08:22 PM	#8
bigdaddy Vice Admiral Location: Space Massachusetts	Re: Insurrection How would they know if you make a settlement on the other side of the planet? __________________ "Bqhatevwr" - Former Senator Scott Brown

November 29 2012, 10:11 PM	#12
BillJ Vice Admiral Location: Greater Cincinnati	Re: Insurrection The whole movie makes no sense. Why even bring an unknown element (Data) on a top secret mission like this? Why did you need people on the ground doing scans when sensors have been shown to give incredible accuracy from orbit? Why hide a spaceship with transporters and a cloak in a lake? Dougherty deserved to die for his sheer incompetence and Picard should've been drummed out of the service for continuously disobeying orders. One of the dumbest fucking movies I've ever seen. They had an interesting concept but fucked it up just about every way imaginable. __________________ Boobies are evil!!!

November 30 2012, 03:28 AM	#13
jayrath Fleet Captain Location: West Hollywood, Calif., USA	Re: Insurrection It's a retread of "Who Watches the Watchers," or whatever the TNG title was. Pretty loopy on TV, but still better done there. 'Nough said.

November 30 2012, 05:16 AM	#14
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Insurrection this gets brought up a lot. The movie fails because the "central dilemma" is stupid and the Baku are selfish and unsympathetic. Therefore there are no stakes to care about with them. "but, but... 600 selfish non-native space hippies might get inconvenienced!" yeah, great narrative hook, there. Oh, and the lame, juvenile humor doesn't help the movie either.