TOS in High-Def?

[M]

I've been thinking, did anyone ever consider actually re-shooting the FX-elements with full-size replicas of the original filming models, using the original film stock etc., only to composit it with modern software? I would LOVE to see the results of such an endeavour. I bet it would look stunning.

Having said that, personally I prefer what little we saw of the work Eden FX had done for the remastering. Looked really like TOS and was in high definition. I wish they would have been allowed to do the whole project.

[Harvey]

M wrote:

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I've been thinking, did anyone ever consider actually re-shooting the FX-elements with full-size replicas of the original filming models, using the original film stock etc., only to composit it with modern software? I would LOVE to see the results of such an endeavour. I bet it would look stunning.

That sounds like a terrific idea, but it would be too expensive for the budget CBS allocated for the restoration of the original series.

BillJ wrote:

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Well... the biggest problem I had with the space effects were how overlit they were. It seemed like someone was always had a light shining on the Enterprise. It ended up making it look cartoonish and didn't match the live-action elements.

Some of the digital effects are definitely over-lit, especially in early episodes. (I think the Blu-Ray even has a comparison of the Enterprise in early episodes versus its appearance in later ones, in which the lighting is much improved). Having said that, if your problem is effects that were too bright, I'm not sure how well the originals hold up in that regard.

[TremblingBluStar]

Green Shirt wrote:

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The transparencies looked pretty bad in Tomorrow is Yesterday even before high-def.

I think that is the one where I noticed them.

[Robert Comsol]

M wrote:

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I've been thinking, did anyone ever consider actually re-shooting the FX-elements with full-size replicas of the original filming models, using the original film stock etc., only to composit it with modern software? I would LOVE to see the results of such an endeavour. I bet it would look stunning."

First, they would need a time machine to reshoot the original, untainted 11' model seen here http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicl...rise/ent01.jpg
which has been turned into that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En...mithsonian.JPG

I wouldn't mind another TOS-R version but it would have to include a faithful CGI reproduction of the Enterprise in its original glory (unless a fan made physical model would be suitable for such shots...)

Which cretin is responsible for adding welding seam lines and weathering on the model? Our airplanes and even ships don't have such archaic welding lines and you could assume that by the 23rd Century you'd have welding techniques leaving no traces whatsoever.
Add to this that the Enterprise's creator Matt Jefferies deliberately designed the ship to keep whatever protruding elements to the absolute minimum - but somebody felt it necessary to inflict the worst retcon surgery you can think of to the most cherished, international icon of science fiction.

And what's the story of Klingon Battlecruisers painted like a Romulan Bird of Prey?
The producers and production designer came up with a simple, canonical solution, i.e. the crest of the Romulan Star Empire looks similar to the one of the Klingon Empire, so the model didn't really need to be changed http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x...denthd0723.jpg

Bob

[M]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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First, they would need a time machine to reshoot the original, untainted 11' model seen here http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicl...rise/ent01.jpg
which has been turned into that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:En...mithsonian.JPG

Hence why I said "re-shooting with full-size replicas of the original filming models" and not "re-shooting the original filming models".

[Robert Comsol]

M wrote:

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"Hence why I said "re-shooting with full-size replicas of the original filming models" and not "re-shooting the original filming models". "

Oops. I didn't pay proper attention, mea culpa. But yes, re-shooting with replicas of actual models has definitely a better authentic feel in the TOS context than CGI.

But what do you mean with "full-size"?

Bob

[ssosmcin]

I rarely watch the Blu-Rays. Star Trek, or any show from that era, was never meant to be seen in Hi-Def. Many effects were made possible because of the limited broadcast resolution, providing them another layer to hide behind. Now, though, we can see threads hanging off uniforms, Spock's ear make up seams, Kirk's toupee line and other crap that pulls me out of the action.

No, I prefer the DVDs, but really mostly watch the laserdiscs. There everything is still hidden and you get the original sound mix to beet.

As for the quality of the effects, I grew up with them and they haven't changed. They're as good now as ever.

[Harvey]

I don't know if it's fair to say that these shows were never meant to be seen in anything but standard definition television broadcasts. Roddenberry tried to get Jeffrey Hunter to shoot extra footage so that "The Menagerie" (i.e. "The Cage") could be released theatrically, and many of the cast had clauses in their contracts covering theatrical exhibition.

Mission: Impossible, the Desilu series which premiered the same year as Star Trek, actually did cut together a pair of episodes for foreign theatrical distribution (the second season two-parter "The Council" became Mission Impossible vs. The Mob).

[Robert Comsol]

ssosmcin wrote:

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"No, I prefer the DVDs, but really mostly watch the laserdiscs. There everything is still hidden and you get the original sound mix to beet."

Unfortunately I have to concur. For my new TOS Enterprise deck plan thread I've constantly utilized my old TV and my LaserDiscs and I noticed intercom reports that are absent on Blu-Ray (and the Blu-Ray intercom reports are mixed into the center channel, thus isolation is impossible). Can somebody please direct me to a thread where this is / has been discussed? Thanx!

Bob

[Mr_Homn]

blu ray with original effects is my favorite way to watch it.

the crap cgi effects already seem more dated than the original effects to me

however, echoing others, the new matte work is nice

[Carcazoid]

Technology is great and all, but sometimes the old way is best. I remember watching a behind the scenes special about History Of The World Part I. Albert Whitlock's matte paintings were amazing, and they turned ordinary scenery into magical places. The same with the old stop motion animation of Ray Harryhausen. CGI may "look" better but it doesn't have the same magic.

[TremblingBluStar]

ssosmcin wrote:

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As for the quality of the effects, I grew up with them and they haven't changed. They're as good now as ever.

I don't know about that. I grew up on TNG and DS9, and the effects on early 90's Trek blows today!

Seriously - I agree. I love watching older show or movies and think effects from that time period are awesome!

[Carcazoid]

Speaking of matte work, here's how it was done before CGI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dZ3w6Awqk_4

[NewHorizon]

Robert Comsol wrote:

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First, they would need a time machine to reshoot the original, untainted 11' model seen here http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicl...rise/ent01.jpg

Hehe. That's not the original, untainted, version of the model. The nacelle caps are replacements, as well as the deflector dish I believe. There are some studio sized replicas out there that look fantastic that could pull it off.

[Robert Comsol]

NewHorizon wrote:

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"Hehe. That's not the original, untainted, version of the model. The nacelle caps are replacements, as well as the deflector dish I believe. There are some studio sized replicas out there that look fantastic that could pull it off."

Well, it is the original and untainted version, where unfortunately the original nacelle caps, sensor dish and lower saucer dome (I believe upper one, too) had gone missing but I might even prefer this one over the CGI version.

Of course CGI has the advantage that you can seamlessly close in onto the ship like they tried to the old fashioned way in The Cage and beautifully fixed it for TOS-R (I presume the opening shot from TNG's Encounter at Farpoint will receive such a treatment for the special edition of TNG somewhere down the road).

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...cagehd0041.jpg

In general I found the CGI close-ups in TOS-R rather boring giving us nothing else then sterile corridors behind the windows so I'm currently working on deck plans that may give you a little more interesting stuff behind these windows in case a future TOS-R Version 2.0 will also be done with CGI and is looking for some ideas: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=195496

Bob