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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate The Persistence of Memory.
Outstanding 71 56.35%
Above Average 41 32.54%
Average 12 9.52%
Below Average 1 0.79%
Poor 1 0.79%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 25 2012, 12:13 AM   #346
Christopher
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
All I'm saying is that, technically, all Data knows is that Soong remembers seeing Juliana and Vaslovik together in 2375. He doesn't know the circumstances in which Vaslovik's mansion burned down, and he doesn't have confirmation that Juliana survived the Borg Invasion.
Remember who you're talking about, though. "Vaslovik" is a man who's survived for thousands of years. Naturally he's learned to be careful, and has had literal lifetimes to become a master of his environment. He always has to be ready to abandon an identity and move on to a new one at any moment in order to preserve his secret. Naturally he, like Soong, would always have an exit prepared.

And it certainly doesn't stand to reason that a man that resourceful wouldn't have a smoke alarm in his house. The mansion burned down, it wasn't blown up. That wouldn't have happened by accident, so the logical conclusion is that he burned it down himself in order to conceal clues to where he was going. Soong recognized as much, and Data would know as much.

I think you're making the assumption that Flint was caught unawares by the invasion, but that's unlikely. He would've been well aware of the news of the ongoing Borg assault -- which, remember, was going on for six weeks before the final blitzkrieg. He would've had plenty of time to see the writing on the wall and bolt for safety, and he would've certainly taken Julianna with him. I find it highly unlikely that a man with so much experience at surviving and staying hidden would've been caught unprepared.
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Old November 25 2012, 04:54 AM   #347
Paper Moon
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Touché. I concede.

Furthermore, having just finished Silent Weapons today, I will say this:

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Old November 25 2012, 08:55 AM   #348
Elias Vaughn
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Elias Vaughn wrote: View Post
Data knows where Juliana is - with Vaslovik. Soong saw them together, and Data has Soong's memories. He has no reason to believe that his search for Vaslovik won't also reunite him with his mother.
All I'm saying is that, technically, all Data knows is that Soong remembers seeing Juliana and Vaslovik together in 2375. He doesn't know the circumstances in which Vaslovik's mansion burned down, and he doesn't have confirmation that Juliana survived the Borg Invasion.

Just because Juliana was with Vaslovik in 2375 doesn't mean she's still with him nine years later.
Assuming Juliana is either inactive or no longer with Vaslovik for some other reason, the best way for Data to learn any of those things is still by finding Vaslovik himself.
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Old November 25 2012, 09:08 AM   #349
WarsTrek1993
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Just finished. David Mack has once again managed to impress me with his writing! I was a big fan of Soong's story, the Breen assault and the return of, well...I'll let you find that out...
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Old November 25 2012, 09:31 PM   #350
wizkid
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Didn't say he had to have same role, just back on the ship.
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Old November 25 2012, 10:35 PM   #351
Ronald Held
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Data could not go to the Android brotherhood to get help finding Vaslovik or learning how to revived a cascade failed brain?
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Old November 26 2012, 12:29 AM   #352
Snaploud
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

I enjoyed this book. It's not quite on the level of Immortal Coil, but it's a worthy sequel. I'm interested in learning more about this Soong/Data amalgam. He definitely has potential as a character.

Ronald Held wrote: View Post
Data could not go to the Android brotherhood to get help finding Vaslovik or learning how to revived a cascade failed brain?
I doubt the brotherhood could help with the latter (as they already claimed not to have the knowledge needed to create artificial life--a seeming prerequisite for the ability to help with the even more complicated problem of a cascade-failed brain), but I'm sure they could help with the former.
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Old November 26 2012, 04:04 AM   #353
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Well, first of all, I don't trust Soong as being a 100% reliable narrator, particularly at this highly volatile nexus of his jealousy for Vaslovik and his unrequited love for Juliana. His use of the terms you noted strike me as deliberately not including the possibility that they may have been targeted by the Borg. That seems to me to reflect an unconscious refusal to consider that possibility, which would color his account of what he saw.

That said, Soong does note that some "blackened timbers remained upright," and that is harder (though not impossible) to reconcile with my theory of a Borg attack.
The Borg attacks of 2381 were substantially more indiscriminate than that. Soong's own Yutani IIIa was subjected to a bombardment that vapourized its largest bodies of water, set the entire planet on fire, and left it dead and quite uninhabitable.

If the Borg had attacked Vaslovik and Tainer's world, then there wouldn't be ruined. There would only be an uninhabitable wasteland, with nothing so intact as charred timbers.
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Old November 28 2012, 04:53 PM   #354
langdonboom
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Just wanted to chime in - Immortal Coil was one of my all time favorite TrekLit novels and I absolutely loved this first chapter in its sequel.

Read it in one day! Not my usual pace but I was riveted the whole time, and totally moved by the ending. Thanks David Mack!
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Old November 29 2012, 07:42 PM   #355
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Just finished last night, pacing myself since there is no December release. Very enjoyable, loved the Suing narrative of the middle story, & the end was satisfying though I was saddened by one part of it. Sounds like Immortal Coil is a good one, will have to check that one out.
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Old November 29 2012, 07:55 PM   #356
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

^ There is a December release: Cold Equations, Book III: The Body Electric releases on Wednesday, December 26.
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Old November 29 2012, 09:30 PM   #357
CaptainDonovin
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

David Mack wrote: View Post
^ There is a December release: Cold Equations, Book III: The Body Electric releases on Wednesday, December 26.
Hmm, I thought that wasn't being released until the second week in January due to the holidays. Damn I really need to check the updates.

Still picked up Immortal Coil for my kindle, was surprised it cost more than Cold Equations #2 that just came out. It was only $1 more but I was still a bit surprised.
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Old December 3 2012, 04:30 PM   #358
Relayer1
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Having finished it now I have to say it was wonderful - instantly one of my favourite Trek novels. I know its popular but I wasn't blown away by Immortal Coil. This built upon it brilliantly.

Most of what I'd have to say has already been said, but I would like to add that I read it that Data's mother (and Lal's grandmother) is still out there and Data may need her help to save Lal.

And also, if Data has all of Soongs memories, how different is that to B4 having Datas ? Could we see a Soong 2.0 at some point ?
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Old December 3 2012, 07:18 PM   #359
MatthiasRussell
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

I think Soong's body had a more advanced positronic brain and software.

I think part of why activating Data worked was also because Soong left his memory files but didn't try to transfer any of his operating software whereas Data did that with B4 and his hardware couldn't handle the new software.
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Old December 9 2012, 06:15 AM   #360
DigificWriter
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Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

Despite saying in another thread that I was going to ignore the Cold Equations trilogy and hope that future Trek novels didn't further screw with continuity (which was a knee-jerk reaction to the news that author David Mack had been told to completely ignore the events of Indistinguishable from Magic), I ended up picking up this novel, and I really enjoyed it. I've never read Immortal Coil and didn't recognize all of the references that Mack put into the novel from canon TNG episodes, but I nevertheless was able to follow the story and figure out what was going on.

I was really caught off guard by Jasminder Choudry's death and how abrupt it was, but the 'payoff' at the end of the book was perfect, and I really can't wait to find out what happens next with regards to Worf's psyche.

I've never been one of those people who clamors for dead characters to return, but have no objections to Data being brought back, although I do find it interesting and neat that Mr. Mack didn't do the predictable thing and have Data just pick up his career and life as if nothing had happened. There's nothing wrong with that kind of a storytelling approach, but I like that it wasn't used in this particular instance because it opens up a bunch of new storytelling options that might not have been available otherwise.

Finally, I have to say that, despite the above-mentioned edict from the editors to completely ignore IFM, there's not actually anything in the contents of TPoM that precludes the events of IFM having happened, which is what I'd been afraid of and was convinced was the case based on comments from others in another thread (the same thread in which I said that I was going to ignore the Cold Equations trilogy, as noted above).
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