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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old November 29 2012, 05:50 AM   #61
Harvey
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

If you don't mind me asking, who did you have the opportunity to interview?
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Old November 29 2012, 05:58 AM   #62
Christopher
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

Maurice wrote: View Post
It's a structure, like a shed or a house, ergo it's technically a set.
No, I'm pretty sure that's not correct. The film glossaries I find online say a set is a constructed environment, not a structure. If you build an artificial forest or mountainside on a soundstage, that's a set, even if there isn't a building on it. Conversely, if you go out and shoot in a real, existing building, that's not a set, but a location. A set is something you build so you can film or stage action within it. If it's a structure that's erected for the production and that you only see from the outside, then it's a mockup or a facade. The exterior of the Galileo was a mockup; the interior, which was built separately (and was larger than the exterior), was a set.
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Old November 29 2012, 06:55 AM   #63
Maurice
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

In general a set is a understood to be a man-made place, typically on a stage or in studio. A location is the opposite, but once it comes into use it becomes the set. There's no such thing as a location set. Ergo, you are on set or off set even while on location. Source: Tony Bill, producer of The Sting.

You can build a set on a location. If you build it, it's a set.

A prop is generally understood to be something that is moveable and interacted with, Props are interacted with by the actors, and the responsibility of the Property Master.

There are gray areas. Things like the shuttlecraft mockup are borderline objects, sort of like driving a car onto a set. Not exactly a prop, but neither is it a set.
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Old November 29 2012, 03:31 PM   #64
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

Yes, you can build a set on location, but that doesn't mean that anything built on location is automatically a set. A set is a setting -- a place within which the performances and action take place. It's the stage, essentially. The obelisk was at most a component of the "set" that also included the lakeside area, the trees, etc. (by the definition you quote above).

Okay, I did a little more digging, and I've found the answer. I was wondering if "set piece" could be the right term, but I didn't think that was the correct use since I'm more familiar with it in other senses. But the dictionary says:

Theater . a piece of scenery used as part of a stage set, as a profile or three-dimensional construction built to stand independently on the stage floor
So that's our answer. If the location qualified as a set, then the obelisk was a set piece.
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Old November 29 2012, 03:50 PM   #65
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

[QUOTE=Christopher;7319557]
Maurice wrote: View Post
The exterior of the Galileo was a mockup; the interior, which was built separately (and was larger than the exterior), was a set.
The Galileo is a TARDIS!

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Old November 29 2012, 04:26 PM   #66
Christopher
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
The Galileo is a TARDIS!

It's not alone. In the TMP Enterprise, the rec deck is too tall to fit inside the rim of the saucer (due to that undercut thing on the miniature), and the corridor in front of engineering (or rather, the forced-perspective mural that represents the corridor stretching into the distance) goes too far forward to fit inside the ship. Also, the aft compartment of the Delta Flyer from Voyager can't fit inside the ship, and there's no actual exit door on the exterior model. Meanwhile, the Delta Flyer itself is too big to fit through Voyager's hangar doors -- and the hangar is somehow large enough to hold the Flyer, Neelix's ship, and an uncertain number of shuttles as well as the occasional visiting ship. And then there's Nemesis, where the lowermost deck of the ship apparently has a bottomless shaft extending down from it. Oh, and the Star Trek V turboshaft that's over 100 stories tall even though the ship's only 20-odd decks high.
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Old November 29 2012, 04:40 PM   #67
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

Yes, set piece is the proper term for the Obelisk. Just like the styrofoam rocks used on set. Unless an actor holds one, or uses it then it becomes a prop.
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Old November 29 2012, 06:46 PM   #68
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

I didn't say anything built on location was a set. I said that functionally any place where the crew is shooting becomes the set.

I've worked on film sets. I've even extraed in "Milk". If anyone on a professional film crew called that obelisk a prop they'd get laughed off said set.
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Old November 29 2012, 09:23 PM   #69
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

^But you did say "if you build it, it's a set," and that's wrong. It's only a set if it's the entire environment in which the scene takes place. The obelisk was just a part of the environment, therefore it's not a set, just a set piece.
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Old November 29 2012, 09:51 PM   #70
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

Maurice wrote: View Post
Things like the shuttlecraft mockup are borderline objects, sort of like driving a car onto a set. Not exactly a prop, but neither is it a set.
But in your example, that car would be a prop. Another car seen only in the background parked on a street would be set dressing-- unless an actor drives off with it, then it qualifies as a prop. Both would come under the property master's jurisdiction, probably in collaboration with the transportation captain.

It's so confusing, we should just wait for a member of the union to step in here to put it straight.
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Old November 29 2012, 10:01 PM   #71
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

Bypassing the agonizing discussions about definitions: Wouldn't it be cool to have a full-size replica of the obelisk in your backyard?
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Old November 30 2012, 03:24 AM   #72
jayrath
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

You really want to get into definitions? The only real experts are the Hollywood Teamsters and other unions. They're the ones who determine who handles, creates and places what. Anyway, it's all meaningless for discussion here.
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Old November 30 2012, 03:55 AM   #73
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

A prop is handled and moveable. If not handled by an actor, it's set dressing. As opposed to vinegar and oil that has lain unmolested for 15 minutes on the counter; that would be dressing that's set.
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Old November 30 2012, 05:01 AM   #74
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

plynch wrote: View Post
As opposed to vinegar and oil that has lain unmolested for 15 minutes on the counter; that would be dressing that's set.
Can't argue with that.
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Old November 30 2012, 05:35 AM   #75
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Re: TOS's largest one time prop.

[QUOTE=BoredShipCapt'n;7320604]
Christopher wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
The exterior of the Galileo was a mockup; the interior, which was built separately (and was larger than the exterior), was a set.
The Galileo is a TARDIS!

To be fair, most fictional movie and TV vehicles that are represented by exterior mockups and separate interior sets are bigger on the inside than on the outside. I mean, how did they squeeze two deck levels into the Jupiter 2?
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