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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 27 2012, 09:38 PM   #1
los2188
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Your grandfather was in diapers....???

There's something that I've wondered about for some time now in regards to Star Trek TOS and TNG. In the movie Generations, when Picard and Kirk meet, Picard tries to convince Kirk to help him stop Soran and why Picard didn't just go back to a different time to stop Soran, we'll never know, but that's a whole other ball of yarn all together. But I digress...when Picard is trying to get Kirk to help him, Kirk is uncertain at first. Kirk wants to stay and as he's walking upstairs to propose to Antonia, Kirk fires back at Picard saying "I was out saving the galaxy when your grandfather was still in diapers." Is that an accurate statement? I mean we know that 78 years had passed between the events on the Enterprise B and Worf's promotion to Lt. Commander as it was written on screen. Now, assuming that Picard is between 55-60 at that time, 78 years before that, if anyone is in diapers, wouldn't it be his father and not his grandfather. Of course if Picard's father was in diapers at that time, he must have had Picard when he was somewhat young, I would imagine. Is there something that I'm missing? Math isn't my favourite subject in school, but am I wrong when I say that the "grandfather in diapers" statement isn't correct? My sincere apologies if this is a subject that has already been discussed.
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Old November 27 2012, 09:59 PM   #2
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

I don't think Kirk had any way of knowing how much time had elapsed at that point...
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Old November 27 2012, 10:01 PM   #3
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Picard was born in 2305, and (I believe) Kirk first took command of the Enterprise in 2265. I can't find anything on when Jean-Luc's father, Maurice Picard, was born, but just based on Jean-Luc's year of birth it's doubtful his grandfather was still in diapers by the mid-2260s. Possible, but probably not likely.

Still, I think it's just best to not take the line literally. I highly doubt Kirk knew exactly how old Picard was when he said that. He was just saying that he'd been in the business of saving the galaxy for a long time. But when you think about it, that doesn't really mean much since he'd spent the last eighty years in the Nexus, during which Picard had amassed nearly forty years of experience as a Starfleet captain himself.
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Old November 27 2012, 10:27 PM   #4
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Picard was born in 2305, and (I believe) Kirk first took command of the Enterprise in 2265. I can't find anything on when Jean-Luc's father, Maurice Picard, was born, but just based on Jean-Luc's year of birth it's doubtful his grandfather was still in diapers by the mid-2260s. Possible, but probably not likely.

Still, I think it's just best to not take the line literally. I highly doubt Kirk knew exactly how old Picard was when he said that. He was just saying that he'd been in the business of saving the galaxy for a long time. But when you think about it, that doesn't really mean much since he'd spent the last eighty years in the Nexus, during which Picard had amassed nearly forty years of experience as a Starfleet captain himself.
Good point. In fact at that point Picard was in fact arguably older than Kirk, who was about 60 when he entered the nexus, as opposed to the ~66 year old Picard.

Anyway you slice it, Picard could make a claim to be more experienced as a starship captain:

Kirk had for sure one 5 year mission, and some fan speculation that he commanded a second. Let's be charitable and say he did. Add another ~7 years on the "A" and that brings it up to ~17 years commanding a starship at retirement. That doesn't even come close to the 22 years Picard had on the Stargazer, let alone if you add 7 years on the "D". There's also that nine years in between when he was doing God-knows-what, but I'm inclined to believe he had one or two other commands during those years, just because going from an very old ship, to no ship for nine years, to a massive new ship seems rather unlikely.
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Old November 27 2012, 10:51 PM   #5
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

It's just a reuse of the same exact line from Scotty in "Relics" which happened to have the same writer.
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Old November 27 2012, 11:25 PM   #6
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

He meant when Picard's grandfather was in diapers again.
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Old November 27 2012, 11:28 PM   #7
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

t_smitts wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
Picard was born in 2305, and (I believe) Kirk first took command of the Enterprise in 2265. I can't find anything on when Jean-Luc's father, Maurice Picard, was born, but just based on Jean-Luc's year of birth it's doubtful his grandfather was still in diapers by the mid-2260s. Possible, but probably not likely.

Still, I think it's just best to not take the line literally. I highly doubt Kirk knew exactly how old Picard was when he said that. He was just saying that he'd been in the business of saving the galaxy for a long time. But when you think about it, that doesn't really mean much since he'd spent the last eighty years in the Nexus, during which Picard had amassed nearly forty years of experience as a Starfleet captain himself.
Good point. In fact at that point Picard was in fact arguably older than Kirk, who was about 60 when he entered the nexus, as opposed to the ~66 year old Picard.

Anyway you slice it, Picard could make a claim to be more experienced as a starship captain:

Kirk had for sure one 5 year mission, and some fan speculation that he commanded a second. Let's be charitable and say he did. Add another ~7 years on the "A" and that brings it up to ~17 years commanding a starship at retirement. That doesn't even come close to the 22 years Picard had on the Stargazer, let alone if you add 7 years on the "D". There's also that nine years in between when he was doing God-knows-what, but I'm inclined to believe he had one or two other commands during those years, just because going from an very old ship, to no ship for nine years, to a massive new ship seems rather unlikely.
Yeah, but Kirk kept getting kicked upstairs by Starfleet everytime he saved the universe.
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Old November 28 2012, 12:14 AM   #8
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Kirk, with his typical bravado, was speaking figuratively. He was also annoyed with Picard's suggestion and trying to give him the brush off. "Go away, kid, you're bothering me."
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Old November 28 2012, 01:21 AM   #9
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

SonicRanger wrote: View Post
He meant when Picard's grandfather was in diapers again.
Zing!
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Old November 28 2012, 03:08 PM   #10
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

I agree that Kirk was speaking figuratively.

But what if, for the sake of arguing, he meant, "Hey, pal! I've done stuff that'd make your grandfather crap his pants."
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Old November 28 2012, 04:33 PM   #11
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Depends.


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Old November 28 2012, 09:03 PM   #12
Hanukkah Solo
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Balrog wrote: View Post
I agree that Kirk was speaking figuratively.

But what if, for the sake of arguing, he meant, "Hey, pal! I've done stuff that'd make your grandfather crap his pants."
Big whoop. Picard has, too.
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Old November 28 2012, 10:18 PM   #13
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Putting aside that it wasn't meant to be taken literally, it's not obviously impossible. If Picard's dad and granddad both started having kids relatively young, say 18-20 or so, the granddad could have still been in diapers during the mid to late 2260s.
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Old November 28 2012, 10:55 PM   #14
Hanukkah Solo
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Of course it's not impossible, but there's no reason to stretch things just to ensure every single word spoken by every single character is always 100% literal and accurate. It's thinking like that which leads to people always assuming characters mean something happened exactly one hundred years to the day every time they say something happened "a century ago."
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Old November 29 2012, 01:33 PM   #15
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Re: Your grandfather was in diapers....???

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Balrog wrote: View Post
I agree that Kirk was speaking figuratively.

But what if, for the sake of arguing, he meant, "Hey, pal! I've done stuff that'd make your grandfather crap his pants."
Big whoop. Picard has, too.
I was speaking figuratively
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