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Old November 26 2012, 03:55 AM   #31
The Wormhole
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
I can't remember seeing any Bolian children.
DS9 Field of Fire. They were bald.
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Old November 26 2012, 05:29 AM   #32
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
If Worf were commandant of the Academy, would that mean all Klingons are Federation citizens?
But he's not. It is very unlikely that a Bolian would be overseeing the induction of future members of Starfleet if his own people were not UFP members.
Why? Is Starfleet speciesist?

I'm not even certain Bolians come from Bolarus.
Sigh.
What? Is it Bolias? Or Bolarus? We don't all read all the "novels". No home world was explicitly named for the Bolians. Humans are from Earth, Klingons from Kronos, so why mightn't the Bolians be from, say, Krypton V?

Sci wrote: View Post
In the novels, the Federation President... is established to be a male Bolian named Min Zife.
If they don't accept script notations and screenwriter's intent, they won't even contemplate tie-in novels.
Why should I? The only material we might both have been exposed to are the TV episodes and movies. Most fans can't even agree on interpretations of facts and tidbits from those sources. Why would I trust your interpretation of a factoid from a novel based on an author's intent that you might have misconstrued?
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Old November 26 2012, 05:51 AM   #33
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Therin wrote:
Sci wrote: View Post
In the novels, the Federation President... is established to be a male Bolian named Min Zife.
If they don't accept script notations and screenwriter's intent, they won't even contemplate tie-in novels.
Why should I?
You don't have to. But I for one see no reason not to. They're good books, for one thing.

Why would I trust your interpretation of a factoid from a novel based on an author's intent that you might have misconstrued?
I'm not sure to what you're referring. The novels -- including A Time to Kill by David Mack and Articles of the Federation by Keith R.A. DeCandido -- are very explicit in referring to Min Zife as the President of the United Federation during the Dominion War and just before NEM, and in establishing that Bolarus is a Federation Member (and that Zife was the Federation Councillor from Bolarus before being elected President). These aren't matters of interpretation; this is just what the books say.

ETA:

But, hey, don't just take my word for it. Go ahead and read the books!
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Old November 26 2012, 06:05 AM   #34
Pavonis
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

But is Bolarus the home world of the Bolians, or just a world which some Bolians are from? Did any character ever state outright that "Bolias" or whatever was the world on which Bolians evolved? Some humans are from Mars, but Mars isn't the human home world.

This kind of connecting of actually unrelated facts reminds me of the alleged "Daedalus-class" model that was in Sisko's office. Everyone accepted that that model was Daedalus-class, despite no dialogue ever connecting the class to the model. That's how fanon spreads, and fanon is interesting, but too many fans latch onto fanon "facts" as if they were incontrovertible.
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Old November 26 2012, 06:12 AM   #35
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

I could have sworn in DS9, 'Bolias' is referred to in the same breath as other core planets of the Federation. After the Dominion conquered Betazed, didn't they say 'This puts them in striking distance of Bolias'? Or was that also Berengaria?

If a first year medical student would ask the question 'Have you recently had sex with a bolian', doesn't that imply it's a common problem to do so? If they're not members of the Federation, they're clearly firmly within Federation space and very friendly with the Federation.
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Old November 26 2012, 06:13 AM   #36
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
But is Bolarus the home world of the Bolians, or just a world which some Bolians are from? Did any character ever state outright that "Bolias" or whatever was the world on which Bolians evolved? Some humans are from Mars, but Mars isn't the human home world.
I mean, you could hypothesize that Bolarus is a world that most Bolians are from but which is not the world on which they evolved, but there's no evidence indicating this in either the canon or in the novels. The most I can tell you is that Koll Azernal's (Zife's chief of staff) internal monologue in A Time to Kill refers to Bolarus IX as "home" for Zife.

We do, however, know from A Singular Destiny by DeCandido that the legislature on Bolarus is known as the Quorum of Bole.
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Old November 26 2012, 06:21 AM   #37
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

Sci wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
But is Bolarus the home world of the Bolians, or just a world which some Bolians are from? Did any character ever state outright that "Bolias" or whatever was the world on which Bolians evolved? Some humans are from Mars, but Mars isn't the human home world.
I mean, you could hypothesize that Bolarus is a world that most Bolians are from but which is not the world on which they evolved, but there's no evidence indicating this in either the canon or in the novels. The most I can tell you is that Koll Azernal's (Zife's chief of staff) internal monologue in A Time to Kill refers to Bolarus IX as "home" for Zife.

We do, however, know from A Singular Destiny by DeCandido that the legislature on Bolarus is known as the Quorum of Bole.
If there's no evidence, then all we can confidently say is "we don't know", not "Bolarus must be the Bolian home world because no one said it wasn't".

We know there's a Bank of Bolias, and there is a species called Bolian, and there's a planet called Bolarus. From all the evidence, I couldn't say whether the Bolians were Federation members, or whether they held a relationship with the UFP akin to the US-Canada relationship.
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Old November 26 2012, 06:32 AM   #38
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
But is Bolarus the home world of the Bolians, or just a world which some Bolians are from? Did any character ever state outright that "Bolias" or whatever was the world on which Bolians evolved? Some humans are from Mars, but Mars isn't the human home world.
I mean, you could hypothesize that Bolarus is a world that most Bolians are from but which is not the world on which they evolved, but there's no evidence indicating this in either the canon or in the novels. The most I can tell you is that Koll Azernal's (Zife's chief of staff) internal monologue in A Time to Kill refers to Bolarus IX as "home" for Zife.

We do, however, know from A Singular Destiny by DeCandido that the legislature on Bolarus is known as the Quorum of Bole.
If there's no evidence, then all we can confidently say is "we don't know", not "Bolarus must be the Bolian home world because no one said it wasn't".
Well, "world they evolved on" is a different concept than "world they are from." The continent of Australia may not be where the ancestors of most of its inhabitants were descended from, but it's still where they're from today.

Hypothetically-speaking, Bolarus may not be where the Bolian species evolved, but the preponderance of evidence is that it's where most Bolians are from now. And meanwhile, I think it's more rational to assume that any given species evolved on the planet it's established to be from unless new evidence is introduced that says otherwise.

(I mean, canonically-speaking, it hasn't been explicitly stated that Vulcans, Andorians, Tellarites, Klingons, Tholians, Tzenkethi, Cardassians, Bajorans, Trill, or Ferengi evolved on Vulcan, Andor, Tellar, Qo'noS, Tholia, Ab-Tzenketh, Cardassia, Trill, or Ferenginar. But at a certain point, it becomes silly to not be willing to assume such in lieu of contradictory evidence.)

We know there's a Bank of Bolias, and there is a species called Bolian, and there's a planet called Bolarus. From all the evidence, I couldn't say whether the Bolians were Federation members, or whether they held a relationship with the UFP akin to the US-Canada relationship.
If you restrict yourself to the canon, sure. But I see no reason not to expand our pallet to include the novels.
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Old November 26 2012, 06:41 AM   #39
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

All I'm seeking to do is sort the facts (fictional facts to be sure) from the fanon (connections that fans have assumed that may not be well-reasoned).

If Bolarus and Bolians are Federation members, that's cool, if it's been established in a reasonable way and not just decreed by some fans and foisted upon the rest.
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Old November 26 2012, 02:44 PM   #40
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Re: Why were the bolians never developed?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I could have sworn in DS9, 'Bolias' is referred to in the same breath as other core planets of the Federation. After the Dominion conquered Betazed, didn't they say 'This puts them in striking distance of Bolias'? Or was that also Berengaria?
A search of Bolius on Memory Alpha only turns up the Bank of Bolias, which is located on Bolarus IX.

Conquering Betazed put the Dominion in striking distance of Alpha Cenauri, Andor, Tellar, and Vulcan.
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