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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old November 25 2012, 01:10 AM   #91
RoJoHen
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Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psion wrote: View Post
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Did you ever think this was a lame motivation? I thought it was lame ... one of those ridiculous notions introduced by the writing staff on Voyager, it no doubt sounded cool at the time, but it hardly makes sense as a species motivation. At their introduction, they sought unique technology to add to their own enhancement. Later, the focus became "biological and technological distinctiveness". That was a healthy tool-user's interest exaggerated to unhealthy extremes by the Borg Collective. It made them both menacing and logical. But "perfection"? What is that beyond an aesthetic pursuit? Perfection is ultimately a subjective evaluation, unless you're talking about physical quantities (like a perfect vacuum).
Actually I think that might've been introduced in First Contact not on Voyager.
No, I'm pretty sure it was first expressed in the Voyager episode, "The Omega Directive". Where First Contact stumbled was in the introduction of a Borg Queen to give the drones a dramatic focus and a face. Both were bad ideas that undermined the novelty of the Borg concept.
"We used to be exactly like them. Flawed. Weak. Organic. But we evolved to include the synthetic. Now we use both to attain perfection." -The Borg Queen, First Contact
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Old November 25 2012, 11:31 AM   #92
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Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

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Though, the Reconstruction is really, really good. The Telesnaps change so frequently, it is almost easy to forget it's a reconstruction.
Is it on DVD?
Don't think so, but, I've transferred mine to DVD. Try the streaming sites like Youtube and Dailymotion. I think one of them has many of the Reconstructions available to watch
Ah, thanks guys!
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Old November 29 2012, 03:22 AM   #93
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Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
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Actually I think that might've been introduced in First Contact not on Voyager.
No, I'm pretty sure it was first expressed in the Voyager episode, "The Omega Directive". Where First Contact stumbled was in the introduction of a Borg Queen to give the drones a dramatic focus and a face. Both were bad ideas that undermined the novelty of the Borg concept.
"We used to be exactly like them. Flawed. Weak. Organic. But we evolved to include the synthetic. Now we use both to attain perfection." -The Borg Queen, First Contact
Oh come off it, that was a line with no meat at all relevant to the rest of the movie's story. She could just as easily have used words like destiny, beauty, ascension, or a dozen other nouns that would have made no difference at all to any of the characters or plot in First Contact. Do you honestly think someone was sitting behind that script thinking, "Gee, let's make the Borg motivated by a zealous pursuit of perfection?" And yet that's exactly what came out of "The Omega Directive". That's where the show's writers deluded themselves into thinking that would make a good motivation for the Borg.
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Old November 29 2012, 09:48 AM   #94
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Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

But hasn't perfection, or something close to it always been behind the Borg's nature? "The Best of Both Worlds" I always took that episode title to be referring to the mix of natural and artificial (I realise other people have other interpretations)

What is it in BOBW Locutus says to Worf? "We want to raise the quality of life for all species." And in FC the Borg queen refers to either Data or Picard as "Imperfect."
The Borg, even in their earliest sightings, were all about harmony, a billion voices singing as one, the hive, symmetry.

I think it's easy to see some notion of perfection behind that. The only difference Voyager made to that was to suggest the Borg still strove towards some higher level of perfection, before this I think the perception was that they already felt they were perfect.
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Old November 29 2012, 04:25 PM   #95
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Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

Starkers wrote: View Post
But hasn't perfection, or something close to it always been behind the Borg's nature? "The Best of Both Worlds" I always took that episode title to be referring to the mix of natural and artificial (I realise other people have other interpretations)

What is it in BOBW Locutus says to Worf? "We want to raise the quality of life for all species." And in FC the Borg queen refers to either Data or Picard as "Imperfect."
The Borg, even in their earliest sightings, were all about harmony, a billion voices singing as one, the hive, symmetry.

I think it's easy to see some notion of perfection behind that. The only difference Voyager made to that was to suggest the Borg still strove towards some higher level of perfection, before this I think the perception was that they already felt they were perfect.
That's pretty well-reasoned, Starkers. I still don't think there was an implicit ideological pursuit of perfection as part of the original Borg concept. Rather, they sought the technology and biological distinctiveness that gave them the greatest advantage. Give me a little time to chew on it and let this topic get back on track.
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Old November 29 2012, 07:36 PM   #96
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Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Is it on DVD?
Don't think so, but, I've transferred mine to DVD. Try the streaming sites like Youtube and Dailymotion. I think one of them has many of the Reconstructions available to watch
Ah, thanks guys!
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