Lincoln: Comments and reviews

[stj]

Wiki is not reliable on any controversial subject, and Thaddeus Stevens is still controversial.

Consider this Atlantic article: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...incoln/265073/

The guy writing this actually thought that the movie's Thaddeus Stevens was an antihero! It is true that the movie allows people to interpret Lincoln's moderation in a wholly positive light. It is also true that this version of Stevens is there to put his leadership into context, for those who choose to watch the movie.

In particular, the Doris Kearns Goodwin contribution (slight as it truly is) is waved about in reviews as proof that the takeway message really is that compromise, including moral compromises, are true leadership. I think that if you assume that you are misreading your own beliefs into the script.

Yes, you can think for example that Lincoln's observation that scolding slavers will not convert them is clever. Or you can make your own observation that the idea of waiting upon the conversion of slavers is merely superficially practical. That in fact it assumes that nothing can be done without the approval of people who will never consent to the loss of their power, which is not practical. This assumption is manifest folly.

In this movie, Lincoln puts the Thirteenth Amendment ahead of a chance to make peace. It is very likely that the movie took a chance association between the amendment vote and the commissioners' visit to replay in small the choice that Lincoln made at the outset of his term. He refused to give up the restriction of slavery in favor of a peace. In 1861 it was merely refusing to abandon his platform of restricting the expansion of slavery, instead of abolition. Nonetheless, Lincoln chose war over defending slavery any longer.

A lot of people want to interpret this movie as current political commentary. If you do, imagine President Obama being confronted by Tony Kushner, asking the President to try leading for a change.

[Gaith]

stj wrote:

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Wiki is not reliable on any controversial subject, and Thaddeus Stevens is still controversial.

Consider this Atlantic article: http://www.theatlantic.com/entertain...incoln/265073/

That article is similarly unambiguous about Stevens and the woman having a long-term relationship.

I'm also not sure what your point is in quoting all these mindless right-wing "reviews". I think it's pretty well established at this point that you can find right-wing hate directed at pretty much anything somewhere on the Internet, especially where openly liberal artists such as Spielberg are concerned.

[stj]

Rex Reed is not an internet nobody. Masur may be fake left but she isn't a mindless rightwinger. The New Republic isn't mindless rightwing in the sense intended either. These reviews are already aiming against any validation of the movie by Oscar wins.

The point is to get people to actually think about this movie, instead of pigeonholing it.

[Brolan]

Awesome movie. The reviews are running 90% good at Rotten Tomatoes and I whole-heartedly agree with them.

[Unicron]

I just got back, and really enjoyed it.

[Caligula]

I think we're looking at six or seven Oscars for this one. Loved every minute of it.

[auntiehill]

^Yep. I expect a slew of nominations for it this coming awards season.

[Temis the Vorta]

Gaith wrote:

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And now I really want to see a Rome-style HBO show about the War years, told from both the leadership and grunt levels.

Ditto. In lieu of that, I've been watching the hoary old miniseries North & South (eh, better than I remembered) in which weirdly enough, Hal Holbrook played Lincoln!

Just saw the movie, we can't let this thread sink...

[Aeronef]

Terrific movie. One of the best I've seen all year.

For what it's worth, in response to the OT--not being American, or particularly familiar with American history, I had never even heard of Thaddeus Stevens before I saw this movie.

I came away from it full of admiration for the man--or at least, the character--both for his egalitarian principles, and his willingness to make a tactical retreat to secure a great strategic victory. "There is nothing I will not say" was the most memorable line in the movie. (Assuming that I'm remembering it correctly ) And the final scene, in bed with his partner, reading the amendment, was a nice little humanizing touch. If it isn't true, it should be.

Like some other people, I thought the movie lost a bit of focus right at the end, and that the assassination scenes were superfluous. But it wasn't a serious flaw--just an imperfection.

[Temis the Vorta]

I guarantee most Americans had not heard of Thaddeus Stevens either.

I expected some mention in the movie of the assassination attempt on Seward being part of the Lincoln plot since he was such a major character, but I guess they had enough on their plate.

The movie is doing good in the latest awards nominations that may be a sign of things to come.

With a record-breaking 13 nominations including Picture, Director, Actor for Daniel Day-Lewis, Supporting Actress for Sally Field and Supporting Actor for Tommy Lee Jones, Steven Spielberg’s long-gestating pet project Lincoln dominated the 18th Annual Critics Choice Movie Awards announced this morning.

...

These awards, unlike many of the critics groups awards, are taken very seriously as a strong precursor to the way Oscar voters may cast their ballots.

[stj]

Sally Field is the female lead, not a supporting actress, I think. And Doris Kearns Goodwin reportedly spent 5 to 9 pages on the 13th Amendment, which makes Tony Kushner's script, not less marvelous. but a terrible adaptation of Team of Rivals. Also I didn't hear that much John Williams, so it's a little mystifying that he was nominated when his score didn't carry half the movie. (Which, let's face it, is half the reason you hire John Williams to score.)

I could watch Argo, but I didn't believe that movie as I watched it. And Skyfall is just mediocre by any standard so far as I'm concerned.

[suarezguy]

Watched the film last night; quite good but not near classic (but not because of too much politics). Day-Lewis was great and Field and Jones very good (especially since better than I expected). I didn't recognize Spader (but occasionally found his character annoying).
Frederick Douglass could and should have played a role. Having read the book, Mary directly telling Stevens Lincoln will always be more popular than him and Abraham trying to discourage his son from enlisting (especially to the extent he did) weren't included and here felt inauthentic.
I think the Constitution was ambiguous on the legality of secession and while the South initiated combat, drafting people into combat was immoral (and here certainly glossed over).