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Old November 17 2012, 08:17 PM   #91
Santaman
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

Could it also be bad/difficult lighting which makes it look like they're shuttered?
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Old November 18 2012, 12:55 AM   #92
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

Nope. Even in the HD version you can see the model has no launcher detail and it is all white.
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Old November 18 2012, 06:32 PM   #93
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

...And let's clarify that this "covering up" is due to the fact that the muzzles of the torp tubes are separate plastic bits that need to be glued onto the smooth forward ends of the torpedo deck pieces, but were left out in the construction of both the photographic model and the yellow desktop model.

So we aren't really talking about Starfleet in-universe installing shutters on a launcher type lifted directly from the Constitution refit, but about Starfleet possibly completely removing such launchers and plating over the holes, or possibly installing new and more compact launchers that have hinged cover plates. Canonically, the muzzle bits were never there, but Sternbach's own art shows them in place - so I'd like to think Starfleet removed the Constitution style tubes at some point after the 23rd century and installed all-new weapons in roughly the same location, with single tubes that we can see in the form of those tubular greeblies atop the top launcher deck and below the bottom one.

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Old November 25 2012, 03:04 AM   #94
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

Ok, now because I have already have understand about Miranda, Constitution and Constellation ; what about Ambassador and Excelsior? As we already know, Ambassador is newer than Excelsior, but we see more Excelsior than Ambassador in DS9 and TNG. Even Galaxy Class has more screen time in DS9. So what happen to the Ambassador Class? Is it a failed design or what?
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Old November 25 2012, 04:54 AM   #95
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

I wouldn't call it a failed design, but TPTB have always been weird when it comes to how they use some models. There was only one Intrepid class vessel seen on DS9 (or outside of VOY for that matter), because VOY was still running then and for some reason they don't like to use other ships of the same class as a protagonist ship. I don't think it makes much difference to viewers myself.
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Old November 25 2012, 07:43 AM   #96
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

Brainsucker wrote: View Post
Ok, now because I have already have understand about Miranda, Constitution and Constellation ; what about Ambassador and Excelsior? As we already know, Ambassador is newer than Excelsior, but we see more Excelsior than Ambassador in DS9 and TNG. Even Galaxy Class has more screen time in DS9. So what happen to the Ambassador Class? Is it a failed design or what?
The real reason why we never saw the Ambassador class more than a handful of times was because the filming model was damaged and wasn't used again after the first episode of DS9. Conversely, the Excelsior model (and the Reliant model as well) survived long enough to be scanned into a CGI model, which is why we see tons of them in later DS9 in CGI-heavy space battle scenes.

The in-universe reason? The one that gets bandied about the most is that the Ambassadors were built for long-range deep space exploration, and we don't see much of them simply because none are anywhere close by. There's certainly no indication whatsoever that it was a failed design. If you think it was a failed design simply because we didn't see it much, then by that logic the 20-odd conjectural designs must also be failed, because we didn't see them even once. Or the BoBW kitbashes...or the DS9 kitbashes...or heck, even the Sovereign and Intrepid classes...
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Old November 25 2012, 10:24 AM   #97
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

The Excelsior-class model was damaged when modifications were made to it for an appearance in Generations, yet the producers elected to pay for a new model. There had to be another reason why the Ambassador-class model wasn't used again.
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Old November 25 2012, 12:24 PM   #98
Brainsucker
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

Maybe because the model is almost identical to the Galaxy Class?
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Old November 25 2012, 04:31 PM   #99
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

You've got an odd definition of almost identical!
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Old November 25 2012, 06:31 PM   #100
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

Ambassadors are stil around, but probably built in small numbers like the Galaxies. How can you expect to see them in the same numbers as Excelsiors, when Ambassadors are right up there in sheer size behind Galaxy and Nebulas?
If a few of them were destroyed during Dominion War, they would be almost extinct by the end of it.
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Old November 25 2012, 08:21 PM   #101
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

throwback wrote: View Post
The Excelsior-class model was damaged when modifications were made to it for an appearance in Generations, yet the producers elected to pay for a new model. There had to be another reason why the Ambassador-class model wasn't used again.
Or a reason why they needed another Excelsior model. They built a smaller one for Voyager's episode "Flashback" right?
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Old November 25 2012, 09:48 PM   #102
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

This is speculation. In one of the mission orders for the Atlantis, there is a diagram of an Excelsior-class starship. It's possible that the two may be connected. If so, it may partly explain why this class of ship is so prominent. The registry of this ship is NCC-72007, which might imply that Excelsiors were still being built in the 2350s and 2360s.
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Old November 26 2012, 12:16 AM   #103
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

throwback wrote: View Post
This is speculation. In one of the mission orders for the Atlantis, there is a diagram of an Excelsior-class starship. It's possible that the two may be connected. If so, it may partly explain why this class of ship is so prominent. The registry of this ship is NCC-72007, which might imply that Excelsiors were still being built in the 2350s and 2360s.
My not-in-any-way-canonical take on the seemingly inappropriate high registration numbers is that a)Starfleet keeps a number of older vessels mothballed, b)SF refits them when a temporary need for more ships arises, and c) many of the numbers represent reactivated Excelsior hulls in which the original names have passed on to newer vessels.
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Old November 26 2012, 12:23 AM   #104
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

BK613 wrote: View Post
throwback wrote: View Post
This is speculation. In one of the mission orders for the Atlantis, there is a diagram of an Excelsior-class starship. It's possible that the two may be connected. If so, it may partly explain why this class of ship is so prominent. The registry of this ship is NCC-72007, which might imply that Excelsiors were still being built in the 2350s and 2360s.
My not-in-any-way-canonical take on the seemingly inappropriate high registration numbers is that a)Starfleet keeps a number of older vessels mothballed, b)SF refits them when a temporary need for more ships arises, and c) many of the numbers represent reactivated Excelsior hulls in which the original names have passed on to newer vessels.
I don't see why Starfleet wouldn't build new excelsiors though. The technology didn't change in the last 80 years. Sure the existing tech has improved, but there was no revolutionary new technology in play. Galaxy class is projected for 100 years...
If Lakota can be upgraded to be able to match a defiant class in firepower, why not keep building them from ground up?
Until Sovereign class was built, which ship would fill the roll of excelsior better than excelsior?
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Old November 26 2012, 06:03 AM   #105
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Re: Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

throwback wrote: View Post
The Excelsior-class model was damaged when modifications were made to it for an appearance in Generations, yet the producers elected to pay for a new model. There had to be another reason why the Ambassador-class model wasn't used again.
As I said before, the Ambassador model was damaged and for all I know, sat in a crate until it was repaired to be sold at auction a few years ago. Conversely, Greg Jein built a new model of the Excelsior for "Flashback," and it was smaller, easier to film, and right at hand, unlike the Ambassador. It was also used several times in DS9 for such ships as the Malinche, Frederickson and several background ships in "In Purgatory's Shadow," "Call to Arms" and other eps until it was scanned to have a CGI model made from it. That CGI model then made about a million appearances during DS9's heavily-CGI battle scenes during the final two seasons.

Saul wrote: View Post
Or a reason why they needed another Excelsior model. They built a smaller one for Voyager's episode "Flashback" right?
They needed to build another Excelsior model because they couldn't use the original one, as it had the Ent-B parts permanently stuck to it.

Interestingly, during pre-production for Generations, the producers were going to have an all-new model built for the Ent-B, of a different class. If that would have happened, then the original model could have been used for "Flashback," and we might have seen more ships of the Ent-B's new class later in DS9. But that's not what happened.

throwback wrote: View Post
This is speculation. In one of the mission orders for the Atlantis, there is a diagram of an Excelsior-class starship. It's possible that the two may be connected. If so, it may partly explain why this class of ship is so prominent. The registry of this ship is NCC-72007, which might imply that Excelsiors were still being built in the 2350s and 2360s.
I don't think so. All of those diagrams were just random images that had nothing to do with the text. Sure there's an Excelsior image, but there's also images of other ships and objects as well. IMHO, one should not take literally any kind of link between images and text, especially when the text shouldn't be taken seriously by itself (i.e. the U.S.S. "Elmer Fudd," etc.)
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