Star Trek Renegades

[King Daniel]

I bet one of them's that Indian prince guy who cameo'd on Voyager.

[Melakon]

And some of the celebrities (on and behind the scenes) probably chipped in some of their own cash.

[M]

To be honest, I didn't think this would actually make the cut (and, really, I was kind of hoping it wouldn't). It's sad to think that that is really what they think "we" the fans want to see. So many good people in this, yet apparently so little understanding of what a good Trek story (or a good story in general) should look like.

[BillJ]

M wrote:

---

To be honest, I didn't think this would actually make the cut (and, really, I was kind of hoping it wouldn't). It's sad to think that that is really what they think "we" the fans want to see. So many good people in this, yet apparently so little understanding of what a good Trek story (or a good story in general) should look like.

Pretty much how I feel. Only got about ten minutes into Of Gods and Men, before I turned it off because it was so bad.

[E-DUB]

"Kahn" is a pretty common Indian surname. While, there might be few Hitlers left in the wold, I don't think everybdy named Kahn (or Green, for that matter) would change their names in reaction to the actions of one man.

I liked "Gods and Men" despite its flaws, and will reserve judgement on "Reegades", as we all should, until I see the finished project.

[junxon]

Now i'm sure someone will come in here and say 'stop being negative' or 'if you dont like the sound of it don't watch' and thats fair enough, but its just really disappointing that they think a bunch of cliches is what the people want.

and section 31 has been done to death. they must be the most well known secret organisation in the universe at this point. (with about every other federation citizen being an agent in non-tos era fan films.)

[Greg Cox]

E-DUB wrote:

---

"Kahn" is a pretty common Indian surname. While, there might be few Hitlers left in the wold, I don't think everybdy named Kahn (or Green, for that matter) would change their names in reaction to the actions of one man.

I liked "Gods and Men" despite its flaws, and will reserve judgement on "Reegades", as we all should, until I see the finished project.

"Khan," not "Kahn."

Nothing personal, just a pet peeve. I've even seen professional magazines spell it wrong!

[King Daniel]

E-DUB wrote:

---

"Kahn" is a pretty common Indian surname. While, there might be few Hitlers left in the wold, I don't think everybdy named Kahn (or Green, for that matter) would change their names in reaction to the actions of one man.

I suspect there would have been quite an Augment witch hunt after the Eugenics Wars. And judging by reactions to Augments in Enterprise and Deep Space Nine, it would seem that Khan blood would be an instant ticket to persona non grata status in the Federation even 300 years later. Not something any sane person would wear on their sleeve.

[junxon]

khan is a common indian name now. Much like Adolf was a common german name. not anymore.

i know bringing up Hitler is usually seen as a bad move on the internet, but i think the comparison is actually a valid one in this case.

[Greg Cox]

KingDaniel wrote:

---

I suspect there would have been quite an Augment witch hunt after the Eugenics Wars. And judging by reactions to Augments in Enterprise and Deep Space Nine, it would seem that Khan blood would be an instant ticket to persona non grata status in the Federation even 300 years later. Not something any sane person would wear on their sleeve.

I don't know. According to "Space Seed," Khan was regarded by history as one of the more admirable genetic tyrants. Both Kirk and Scotty confessed to having always had a sneaking admiration for him, and Kirk specifically mentions that there were no known massacres under his reign.

One gets the impression, at least in "Space Seed," that Khan was remembered as more of a 20th Century Napoleon or Julius Caesar than a Hitler. An ambitious conqueror, yes, but not a monster.

Marla's reaction also supports that theory. It's hard to imagine that she would be swooning over "Hitler" or painting heroic portraits of him.

We should also note that, aside from Marla, nobody on the Enterprise even recognizes him, which implies that Khan isn't exactly that infamous centuries later.

And, for that matter, Terrell doesn't recognize Khan in the movie. And Chekov actually has to explain who Khan is. (Note that Chekov doesn't just say "It's Khan Noonien Singh!" as though that would be self-explanatory. He instead goes into a whole spiel about how Khan is "a product of late twentieth century genetic engineering," etc.)

In all, it doesn't seem like the name "Khan" is synonymous with evil in Kirk's time. And, indeed, nobody in "Space Seed" acts as though Khan is the equivalent of Hitler or whomever.

(Oh, one more thing: If Khan was supposed to be a Hitler type, does anyone really think an American TV episode in the 1960s would have ended with the hero letting "Hitler" and his girlfriend have a second chance on a brand new world? I think not . . . .)

[Nerys Myk]

BillJ wrote:

---

Wouldn't he be more like an absentee great-great-great grandfather, since its been four hundred years? And wouldn't the genes be really watered down by that point?

So the only interesting thing about her is the last name...

Aren't there a bunch of augment embryos frozen on Cold Station 12? Why not make the character an Augment from that batch?

[junxon]

ok the hitler comparison isn't right, i'll admit that.

its just that small universe syndrome bothers me a great deal. its like why not include tom paris' brother Tim, spocks nephew Spork and Troi and Rikers son Will Jr to complete it?

[Greg Cox]

junxon wrote:

---

ok the hitler comparison isn't right, i'll admit that.

its just that small universe syndrome bothers me a great deal. its like why not include tom paris' brother Tim, spocks nephew Spork and Troi and Rikers son Will Jr to complete it?

Well, just to play devil's advocate, I suppose there's something to be said for using marquee names to appeal to fans.

Captain Khan is probably sexier and more attention-getting than "Captain Mimsy O'Roarke of the Starship Endeavor."

Then again, "small universe" syndrome has never really bothered me--as should be obvious from my books!

[BillJ]

Greg Cox wrote:

---

Then again, "small universe" syndrome has never really bothered me--as should be obvious from my books!

For me, it's a case-by-case basis.

Renegade bothers me. Admiral Chekov, Commander Tuvok, Captain Khan, Section 31 and a ship that looks like it was ripped off from Firefly. Just for starters.

Plus, Lighthammer kept trying to make it sound like an officially sanctioned production from CBS over in 'Future of Trek', which rubbed me the wrong way to no end.