RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,795
Posts: 5,325,652
Members: 24,548
Currently online: 528
Newest member: wrestlefreak36

TrekToday headlines

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4

Star Trek Pop-Ups Book Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Cho: More On Selfie
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old November 21 2012, 06:53 AM   #76
Ghost Bones
Captain
 
Ghost Bones's Avatar
 
Location: Ghost Blighty
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Oh wow. They've actually managed to make them look worse.
So you prefered them when they were wearing tin foil to actual metal?
All they've done is make the metal more segmented so it looks like the strap on my grandad's watch. It's also a straw man to suggest the only alternative is tin foil. I think the best-looking Cybermen in the show ever are the Revenge of the Cybermen Cybermen, who looked smooth and not so bulky. Now of course to our modern eyes there are bits that look silly there, but a reworking of that more slender outline is what I'd go for, not the stomping twatters we have now and will continue to have.
Cutter John wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Oh wow. They've actually managed to make them look worse.
So you prefered them when they were wearing tin foil to actual metal?
C'mon, its Bones. Of course he hates it.
Uhurrrhurrrrhurrrhurrrrhurrrr.
__________________
Try not to talk about me, it's only giving me what I want after all, and I do more than enough laughing already.
Ghost Bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 01:16 PM   #77
Green Lantern
Fleet Captain
 
Green Lantern's Avatar
 
Location: The bad of whoever pays for the night.
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cutter John wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Oh wow. They've actually managed to make them look worse.
So you prefered them when they were wearing tin foil to actual metal?
C'mon, its Bones. Of course he hates it.
Good point! :P
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Oh wow. They've actually managed to make them look worse.
So you prefered them when they were wearing tin foil to actual metal?
All they've done is make the metal more segmented so it looks like the strap on my grandad's watch. It's also a straw man to suggest the only alternative is tin foil. I think the best-looking Cybermen in the show ever are the Revenge of the Cybermen Cybermen, who looked smooth and not so bulky. Now of course to our modern eyes there are bits that look silly there, but a reworking of that more slender outline is what I'd go for, not the stomping twatters we have now and will continue to have.
Cutter John wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
So you prefered them when they were wearing tin foil to actual metal?
C'mon, its Bones. Of course he hates it.
Uhurrrhurrrrhurrrhurrrrhurrrr.
Green Lantern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 04:02 PM   #78
Ghost Bones
Captain
 
Ghost Bones's Avatar
 
Location: Ghost Blighty
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

What are you getting at? You think you're banging your head against a wall when someone makes a reasoned elaboration? Fuck's sake.
__________________
Try not to talk about me, it's only giving me what I want after all, and I do more than enough laughing already.
Ghost Bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 06:32 PM   #79
Psion
Commodore
 
Psion's Avatar
 
Location: Lat: 40.1630936 Lon: -75.1183777
View Psion's Twitter Profile
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Oh wow. They've actually managed to make them look worse.
So you prefered them when they were wearing tin foil to actual metal?
All they've done is make the metal more segmented so it looks like the strap on my grandad's watch. It's also a straw man to suggest the only alternative is tin foil. I think the best-looking Cybermen in the show ever are the Revenge of the Cybermen Cybermen, who looked smooth and not so bulky. Now of course to our modern eyes there are bits that look silly there, but a reworking of that more slender outline is what I'd go for, not the stomping twatters we have now and will continue to have.
I've never found any incarnation of Cybermen especially believable. The "stompers", while of higher production value than anything out of original Who, are just too bulky, robotic, and homogeneous. I'd like a design that looks less mass-produced. For this reason, I don't share most fans' aversion to the Lisa Hallet design in Torchwood. Sure, it sucked, but the idea that her partial conversion resulted in a unique look improved the effect.

Star Trek's Borg are a better representation of what the Cybermen are supposed to be: menacingly upgraded biological entities. Even their first appearance in "Q Who" is handsprings and cartwheels better than any attempt in Doctor Who -- old or new. The big difference between Cybermen and Borg is that the Borg completely surrender their identity to the hive mind Collective, but the Cybermen still retain some individuality.

There was one thing I really liked about their appearance in "The Tenth Planet" that hasn't been done since: the Cyber-leader actor would hold his mouth open while another actor provided his voice. It's such a simple trick, but the effect really made the character fascinating and menacing. Especially if, as someone else mentioned, one considers the fabric parts of their costumes to be surgical bandages. For all the spare parts and flashlights look of those Cyber costumes, they're actually among my favorites.
__________________
Twinkies are back. I knew they couldn't stay away from me for long.
Psion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 07:31 PM   #80
Green Lantern
Fleet Captain
 
Green Lantern's Avatar
 
Location: The bad of whoever pays for the night.
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

I find it a real shame the last episode of the tenth planet is lost, it means we can never view the serial in full. Plus, it's both the first appearance of the cybermen, and the first regeneration ever on screen.
Green Lantern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 07:38 PM   #81
Sindatur
Rear Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
I find it a real shame the last episode of the tenth planet is lost, it means we can never view the serial in full. Plus, it's both the first appearance of the cybermen, and the first regeneration ever on screen.
Though, the Reconstruction is really, really good. The Telesnaps change so frequently, it is almost easy to forget it's a reconstruction.
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is online now   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 08:07 PM   #82
Redfern
Commodore
 
Redfern's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psion wrote: View Post
...but the effect really made the character fascinating and menacing. Especially if, as someone else mentioned, one considers the fabric parts of their costumes to be surgical bandages.
I wish I could remember who stated that upon OutPost Gallifrey over 6 years ago. He really deserves credit for changing my perception of that original design.

But let's remember that despite their superficial similarity, the core motivations for the Borg and the Cybermen are rather different. The Borg thrive for "perfection". But what drives the Cybermen is far more primal, survival. Here's a race of people who effectively d*mned themselves while trying to prevent extinction. Getting metaphysical, you might say they lost their souls in an attempt to save themselves. They're animated corpses that can't comprehend they are, for all practical purposes, already dead. A Borg can be "unplugged" from the Collective and in various circumstances, become an individual again. Various eps of "next Gen'" and "Voyager" have demonstrated this. The success rate in reversing full Cyber-conversion is far, far less. You're just so much walking long-pork.

Sincerely,

Bill
__________________
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!

Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti
Redfern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21 2012, 11:01 PM   #83
Psion
Commodore
 
Psion's Avatar
 
Location: Lat: 40.1630936 Lon: -75.1183777
View Psion's Twitter Profile
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Redfern wrote: View Post
... The Borg thrive for "perfection".
Did you ever think this was a lame motivation? I thought it was lame ... one of those ridiculous notions introduced by the writing staff on Voyager, it no doubt sounded cool at the time, but it hardly makes sense as a species motivation. At their introduction, they sought unique technology to add to their own enhancement. Later, the focus became "biological and technological distinctiveness". That was a healthy tool-user's interest exaggerated to unhealthy extremes by the Borg Collective. It made them both menacing and logical. But "perfection"? What is that beyond an aesthetic pursuit? Perfection is ultimately a subjective evaluation, unless you're talking about physical quantities (like a perfect vacuum).

Redfern wrote: View Post
But what drives the Cybermen is far more primal, survival. Here's a race of people who effectively d*mned themselves while trying to prevent extinction. Getting metaphysical, you might say they lost their souls in an attempt to save themselves. They're animated corpses that can't comprehend they are, for all practical purposes, already dead.
Yes! This sounds very interesting and distinct from the Borg in the sense that the Borg were a viable, poweful, almost instinctive force of nature with nothing short of demigods as natural threats. The Cybermen always used to teeter on the edge of oblivion.

Redfern wrote: View Post
A Borg can be "unplugged" from the Collective and in various circumstances, become an individual again. Various eps of "next Gen'" and "Voyager" have demonstrated this. The success rate in reversing full Cyber-conversion is far, far less. You're just so much walking long-pork.
Yep. They flirted with this in that Torchwood episode. And again with Craig when he proved love conquers all. But I think you're confusing your species-level metaphor with the individual when you suggest each Cyberman is walking dead. As a race, the Cybermen have been clinging to life since their introduction ... beaten down by the universe itself and almost, but not quite, driven to extinction. They're past their expiration date, but hanging around in the fridge of life only through shear luck and unmitigated gall. But each Cyberman is different, and there might be some dramatic gristle to chew if you can fish out some viable morsels from that old bowl of Cyberstew.

I'm reminded of the final episode of Galactica:1980 when I think I'd love to see an episode where the Doctor encounters a lone Cyberman and tries to rehabilitate him. Her.

It?
__________________
Twinkies are back. I knew they couldn't stay away from me for long.
Psion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2012, 09:55 PM   #84
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Doctor travelled with a Cyberman companion in the DWM comics, though that Cyberman was rehabilitated before the Doctor came along.
__________________
"All of time and space. Everywhere and anywhere, every star that ever was. Where do you want to start?"
Exploring the Universe
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 23 2012, 02:18 PM   #85
Redfern
Commodore
 
Redfern's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

I'll concede the point as I have not seen any TorchWood. I knew the series depicted a partially converted Cyber(wo)man, but I didn't know her fate.

Sincerely,

Bill
__________________
Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"!

Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti
Redfern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24 2012, 07:06 PM   #86
Green Lantern
Fleet Captain
 
Green Lantern's Avatar
 
Location: The bad of whoever pays for the night.
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
I find it a real shame the last episode of the tenth planet is lost, it means we can never view the serial in full. Plus, it's both the first appearance of the cybermen, and the first regeneration ever on screen.
Though, the Reconstruction is really, really good. The Telesnaps change so frequently, it is almost easy to forget it's a reconstruction.
Is it on DVD?
Green Lantern is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24 2012, 07:12 PM   #87
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Psion wrote: View Post
Redfern wrote: View Post
... The Borg thrive for "perfection".
Did you ever think this was a lame motivation? I thought it was lame ... one of those ridiculous notions introduced by the writing staff on Voyager, it no doubt sounded cool at the time, but it hardly makes sense as a species motivation. At their introduction, they sought unique technology to add to their own enhancement. Later, the focus became "biological and technological distinctiveness". That was a healthy tool-user's interest exaggerated to unhealthy extremes by the Borg Collective. It made them both menacing and logical. But "perfection"? What is that beyond an aesthetic pursuit? Perfection is ultimately a subjective evaluation, unless you're talking about physical quantities (like a perfect vacuum).
Actually I think that might've been introduced in First Contact not on Voyager.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24 2012, 07:14 PM   #88
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
I find it a real shame the last episode of the tenth planet is lost, it means we can never view the serial in full. Plus, it's both the first appearance of the cybermen, and the first regeneration ever on screen.
Though, the Reconstruction is really, really good. The Telesnaps change so frequently, it is almost easy to forget it's a reconstruction.
Is it on DVD?
No, but it is on tape if you can still find it.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25 2012, 12:37 AM   #89
Psion
Commodore
 
Psion's Avatar
 
Location: Lat: 40.1630936 Lon: -75.1183777
View Psion's Twitter Profile
Re: New Cybermen Design!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DWF wrote: View Post
Psion wrote: View Post
Redfern wrote: View Post
... The Borg thrive for "perfection".
Did you ever think this was a lame motivation? I thought it was lame ... one of those ridiculous notions introduced by the writing staff on Voyager, it no doubt sounded cool at the time, but it hardly makes sense as a species motivation. At their introduction, they sought unique technology to add to their own enhancement. Later, the focus became "biological and technological distinctiveness". That was a healthy tool-user's interest exaggerated to unhealthy extremes by the Borg Collective. It made them both menacing and logical. But "perfection"? What is that beyond an aesthetic pursuit? Perfection is ultimately a subjective evaluation, unless you're talking about physical quantities (like a perfect vacuum).
Actually I think that might've been introduced in First Contact not on Voyager.
No, I'm pretty sure it was first expressed in the Voyager episode, "The Omega Directive". Where First Contact stumbled was in the introduction of a Borg Queen to give the drones a dramatic focus and a face. Both were bad ideas that undermined the novelty of the Borg concept.
__________________
Twinkies are back. I knew they couldn't stay away from me for long.
Psion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25 2012, 12:54 AM   #90
Sindatur
Rear Admiral
 
Sindatur's Avatar
 
Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: It's official! Neil Gaiman episode to feature...(spoilers)

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
I find it a real shame the last episode of the tenth planet is lost, it means we can never view the serial in full. Plus, it's both the first appearance of the cybermen, and the first regeneration ever on screen.
Though, the Reconstruction is really, really good. The Telesnaps change so frequently, it is almost easy to forget it's a reconstruction.
Is it on DVD?
Don't think so, but, I've transferred mine to DVD. Try the streaming sites like Youtube and Dailymotion. I think one of them has many of the Reconstructions available to watch
__________________
One Day I hope to be the Man my Cat thinks I am

Where are we going? And why are we in this Handbasket?
Sindatur is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:44 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.