The Walking Dead Season 3

[AvBaur]

Bob Morton wrote:

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What is the point to the show? The Endgame as it may be? Voyager got to Earth, Galactica got to Earth (and some livable planet with genetically compatible natives), Clark became Superman. How can this show end?

Kirkman has stated repeatedly that his goal (with the comics, anyway) was to create a never-ending zombie story. He wants to always show what happens after the "happy ending" and keep it going for as long as possible. And the way the ratings & comic sales numbers are going, that's going to be awhile.

[propita]

Finally caught up after vacation.

I love Daryl! His figuring out the Carol's angle of attack, his immediately taking "Little Ass Kicker," and his taking care of Carol when he found her. Sigh.

[Mister Fandango]

Bob Morton wrote:

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What is the point to the show? The Endgame as it may be? Voyager got to Earth, Galactica got to Earth (and some livable planet with genetically compatible natives), Clark became Superman. How can this show end?

The same way every other series of modern Star Trek ends. The same way every other variation of Superman ends. The same way the vast majority of series end.

Zombies are just a natural part of this world now. The show is seeing how these characters survive in this new world. Plain and simple.

[TREK_GOD_1]

Mister Fandango wrote:

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The same way every other series of modern Star Trek ends. The same way every other variation of Superman ends. The same way the vast majority of series end.

Zombies are just a natural part of this world now. The show is seeing how these characters survive in this new world. Plain and simple.

I'm guessing he's asking what is the point if there's no true resolution to the story. If the zombie problem just goes on and on, while the living are on the run and/or hiding, it risks moving in a circle, with the usual zombie attacks, the usual survivor conflicts to the point where it becomes a true soap opera.

TV series like The Fugitive could have run for more seasons (for those who doubt it, in real life, fugitives can be on the run for decades), but a resolution was reached sooner than later, otherwise it would become stuck in repeat mode. Richard Kimble arrives, he gets involved, he's almost caught, he's captured, then escapes, he's still searching. That could have been milked for at least another three years...

I really enjoy TWD, but I also acknowledge why the original Night of the Living Dead was such a revolutionary chapter of that sub-genre, and retains its legendary place: it was not just the zombies and the human conflict, but protagonists ultimately had a fixed fate, and the drama of a dramatic ending. Neverending shows lose out on that luxury, and after a time, seem to exist for the sake of it (and/or to make money while the property has earning strength).

[Silvercrest]

Right. Plus there's the problem that as presented now, the characters have no hope. At the current rate of attrition, we can't reasonably expect that anyone on this show will be alive after a few more seasons. They have no real goal other than "find someplace safe", and the show goes out of its way to depict nowhere as being safe. Will there be no other point to the show than that?

I like the show quite a bit, but I'll be disappointed if ultimately it's about nothing more than "Life's a bitch. Then you die. Then you reanimate."

BSG appeared equally hopeless, but it actually did go somewhere (whether people agree with that destination or not). So it's still possible for TWD to do the same. I just hope they do.

[Mister Fandango]

But... that is exactly what this show is. The drama of trying to survive in an otherwise hopeless world. There are no large, safe, scientific cultures left (that we know of), and certainly none that have the training or resources to work on finding a cure. It's 100% survival for the sake of surviving. The last person qualified to tell us whether or not there is a cure died in the first season, and the only news he had worth reporting is that everyone is a zombie already anyway; they just didn't know it yet.

If anything, the end game of this show is the witnessing of the end of the human race. Changing that in any way would turn it into something completely different.

And that's all its been since day one. It was never a story with any other ending in sight. Just the adventure of this one group of people enduring through a no-win situation.

Which, again, is like most shows out there to one degree or another. Star Trek: TNG never had an ending. There was a finale, sure, but the characters and the world continued on after that finale. Modern Family certainly has no end-game in sight. Hell, even shows like Homeland don't. Once they thwart the current attack on the US, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. Once they capture/execute Abu Nazir, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. Once they reveal Brody to the world, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. Once Carrie, Brody, Saul, David, Mike, and/or all their respective families are executed, the CIA and the world/show will continue on. etc. Or is there some definitive end to these shows that I'm just unaware of?

[Silvercrest]

Mister Fandango wrote:

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But... that is exactly what this show is. The drama of trying to survive in an otherwise hopeless world. There are no large, safe, scientific cultures left (that we know of), and certainly none that have the training or resources to work on finding a cure. It's 100% survival for the sake of surviving. The last person qualified to tell us whether or not there is a cure died in the first season, and the only news he had worth reporting is that everyone is a zombie already anyway; they just didn't know it yet.

If anything, the end game of this show is the witnessing of the end of the human race. Changing that in any way would turn it into something completely different.

Not necessarily. The show can be about something other than the last humans killing each other off, and still not be about a cure. There's any number of story possibilities that don't end with Rick's group getting turned out of their latest home and going on the road again. Or getting devoured to the last man.

They keep talking about how Carl is the hope for the future, and Baby Ass-Kicker, and so on, but there's no way those characters will survive to grow up at this rate.

You refer to the characters "surviving" or "enduring", so let's see a situation where they might actually be able to survive. If they never had a chance, you can't say the show is about survival.

So, will the last episode see everyone dying, Rick turning his gun on himself, and the screen fading to black while the walkers close in? If so, why watch?

[RJDiogenes]

The endgame of Walking Dead is punctuated equilibrium. A new Human species will evolve in response to the Zombie Apocalypse-- a species that eats Zombies. Yum.

FreezeC77 wrote:

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I actually thought that's what the helicopter was doing and it was going to be 'herding' the zombie herds by leading them to giant trenches or off of a cliff. If you dug out some really deep and long trenches and then used noise to draw a herd towards them you could just collect them that way and then just burn the bodies.

Yeah, the zombies should be pretty easy to "Pied Piper." I don't know why they don't try it.

[trekkiebaggio]

There's still lots of places to explore. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I'd like to see how the next generation of survivors handle things. And they can always explore what happened in different countries. It's interesting to think where the show will be in a few season's time.

As for this episode, I thought it was the weakest one so far. It seemed to be shuffling things around to get them in place ready for the mid-season break. Merle is really fun to watch, can't wait until he and Daryl are reunited. I imagine that Carol will be involved in a conflict between them.

Unfortunately the show's Facebook page spoiled that Maggie and Glen got captured.

I wasn't impressed with archery girl. Perhaps it was just to show that while Woodbury is secure some of the residents have gotten lazy? Rick's group have been the brink for so long, maybe the Woodbury people have lost their edge?

I don't think Andrea is playing the Governor, I think she's just been seduced by his charm and the surroundings.

I really loved the last shot when Michonne showed up with the baby formula.

[Takeru]

I just realized that archery girl was on Zoey 101, I heard she was fired from that show because she didn't like Jamie Lynn Spears.

[Morpheus 02]

trekkiebaggio wrote:

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I wasn't impressed with archery girl. Perhaps it was just to show that while Woodbury is secure some of the residents have gotten lazy? Rick's group have been the brink for so long, maybe the Woodbury people have lost their edge?

I think this was to show how "fake" Woodbury is. Their best shot can't really shoot. Their "death match" has the walkers relatively safe in chains.

Don't forget -- they kill people with significant skill (and potentially a threat). The Governor actively did it with the military guys. he then sent Merle & copmany to get Michonne.

if they're good fighters, but more important, smart enough to challenge the Governor's authority -- they are a threat.

The conflict betwene darryl and Merle won't just involve carol..but the Governor, too. Darryl is a good warrior -- but also threat to the Governor as well. He and Rick would be at the top of the hit lists.

i am interested to see how the rescue mission goes down. Will there be a distraction on one end, and Michonne and others swoop in for the rescue?

[TREK_GOD_1]

Morpheus 02 wrote:

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i am interested to see how the rescue mission goes down. Will there be a distraction on one end, and Michonne and others swoop in for the rescue?

Andrea would have to be the key to some breakdown in internal security....not that anyone in their right mind should rely on that ass of a character. Then again, the Governor would never fully trust Andrea, so he likely has his thugs watch her for any signs of betrayal.

About the idea of a rescue mission: I just hope the fight does not go down with Rick's less than a handfull of able bodies taking on an entire town--or large group of armed guards (sans the three Michonne killed in ep. 6). Or Rick's group mount a resuce, only to have the episode be nothing more than a setup for another "shock" death, as in the case of T-Dog and Lori.

[Mister Fandango]

Silvercrest wrote:

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You refer to the characters "surviving" or "enduring", so let's see a situation where they might actually be able to survive. If they never had a chance, you can't say the show is about survival.

Uh, I don't think the word survival means whatever it is you think it does. The show so far has been exactly that; them surviving in a zombie apocalypse.

So, will the last episode see everyone dying, Rick turning his gun on himself, and the screen fading to black while the walkers close in? If so, why watch?

Again: The same damn reason you watch any other show set in a persistent world, including our own. Very few stories have this non-existent ending you seem to be desperate for. Very, very few. Even the ones originally mentioned never ended. Voyager returned home, yay! And I guess after they did, they all retired from Starfleet and had no more adventures, and the entire Trek universe came to an abrupt end? No. Battlestar Galactica had the survivors (there's that word again) reach our Earth... so after the fade to black, they all died and nothing else happened? No.

It's the same thing here. The only thing the Walking Dead lacks is a major goal. But, yet again, that's the norm in vaaaaaast majority of shows. And even when there is a major goal, that's not always the end point for the show. Farscape is a prime example; the main goal was for Crichton to get back to Earth. But that's not where the show ended.

The Walking Dead is simply a drama/soap opera/character piece. There is no ending, because all the stories are about the characters living in the here and now and, once again, how they struggle to survive in a world where there is no hope for survival. That's it. That's the story. That's The Walking Dead.

If that's not enough for you to watch it, why are you watching it? And why do you watch most everything else you watch?

[Silvercrest]

Mister Fandango wrote:

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Uh, I don't think the word survival means whatever it is you think it does. The show so far has been exactly that; them surviving in a zombie apocalypse.

Again: The same damn reason you watch any other show set in a persistent world, including our own. Very few stories have this non-existent ending you seem to be desperate for. Very, very few. Even the ones originally mentioned never ended. Voyager returned home, yay! And I guess after they did, they all retired from Starfleet and had no more adventures, and the entire Trek universe came to an abrupt end? No. Battlestar Galactica had the survivors (there's that word again) reach our Earth... so after the fade to black, they all died and nothing else happened? No.

It's the same thing here. The only thing the Walking Dead lacks is a major goal. But, yet again, that's the norm in vaaaaaast majority of shows. And even when there is a major goal, that's not always the end point for the show. Farscape is a prime example; the main goal was for Crichton to get back to Earth. But that's not where the show ended.

The Walking Dead is simply a drama/soap opera/character piece. There is no ending, because all the stories are about the characters living in the here and now and, once again, how they struggle to survive in a world where there is no hope for survival. That's it. That's the story. That's The Walking Dead.

If that's not enough for you to watch it, why are you watching it? And why do you watch most everything else you watch?

I'm not desperate for a fairytale ending. But having no goal is a problem. If they have no goal, then whatever ending they achieve will only elicit, "meh, so what?"

Currently it is enough for me to watch it. But if they choose not to build on their premise or go anywhere with it (or set a goal), I'll consider it lazy writing and I'll be disappointed. Yes, like the vast majority of shows.

[the G-man]

At this point I do love the show. however at some point they are going to need to establish an arc or the show is going to just become: visit new place, have things go to hell, leave it for a new place, etc. at some point that will get boring.