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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old November 14 2012, 08:02 PM   #16
Sindatur
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Re: Kirk quote

Also, it is having the emotions, not displaying them that makes you Human. Vulcans do have emotions, they just suppress them and prevent themselves from displaying those emotions. This doesn't mean they do not hurt every bit as much as a Human when a friend or a child, a parent or a spouse die, it merely means you are unlikely to see them making a scene about it.

Not sure where this actual belief comes from that Vulcans don't actually have emotions or feelings, rather than suppressing them. Sure many characters have cracked this joke implying Vulcans are unfeeling, but, we know this is not the truth

I actually know several people, who are very emotional, and when sad they hurt very deeply, and can even be paralyzed by how deeply they hurt, but, they don't cry out loud or show tears coming from their eyes. Just because you can't see crying, doesn't mean thy don't hurt just as much, in fact, I think maybe they hurt more, because they aren't able to "Cry it out"
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Old November 14 2012, 09:10 PM   #17
TiberiusMaximus
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Re: Kirk quote

Would you honestly think Picard would be justified in insisting that Data was the most human soul he ever encountered? Of course you wouldn't.
Actually, yes I would. I can see Picard saying something like that, and I would understand and agree.

Having personality is part of being human. Someone who has, for the most part, a bland or non-existent personality, can't really be said to be 'fully human.'
Spock doesn't have a bland or non-existent personality. If you think he does, you're missing the point and misinterpreting pretty much everything Spock does.

And besides, lots of actual non-fictional humans have "bland" personalities. Some people have mental or emotional conditions that make them seem cold or unemotional, and some people simply don't get overly excited. That doesn't mean they're not human.

Also, it is having the emotions, not displaying them that makes you Human. Vulcans do have emotions, they just suppress them and prevent themselves from displaying those emotions.
I was going to say the same thing. Like I said, I'm tired of people saying that Spock doesn't have emotions.
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Old November 14 2012, 09:29 PM   #18
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Re: Kirk quote

jayrath wrote: View Post
Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I think you guys might be big fans of the original show, and so you're probably biased.
Thanks for inadvertantly pointing out your own bias.
Yes, I like the show, but I also try to be unbiased in life. Someone who defends another person no matter what they do or say isn't necessarily being unbiased.

And guys, not once did I say that Spock has no emotions. But he doesn't show them. Part of being human is the desire to show emotion. If you saw a human walking around for days or weeks or years, rarely if ever showing emotion, you could justifiably ask "What is wrong with you?"

Spock didn't want to show emotions---he felt such displays were illogical or whatever---and that is decidedly a non-human stance.

But I'm done arguing. Some people have no intention of opposing favorite characters that they have, so it's pointless for me to continue. I think, though, that if you look at this issue objectively you will realize that Spock, by his very nature, couldn't have been the 'most human soul' Kirk had encountered, unless Kirk was really shortchanging the multitudinous humans he had known throughout the years.

Last edited by Captain McBain; November 14 2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Old November 14 2012, 09:47 PM   #19
BillJ
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Re: Kirk quote

Captain McBain wrote: View Post

And guys, not once did I say that Spock has no emotions. But he doesn't show them. Part of being human is the desire to show emotion. If you saw a human walking around for days or weeks or years, rarely if ever showing emotion, you could justifiably ask "What is wrong with you?"
Spock showed his emotions all the damned time, he just didn't wear them on his sleeve. Nimoy played the character about as perfectly as an actor can play a character and I say this as someone who ranks Kirk as his favorite character. Nimoy conveyed so much with a simple raised eyebrow or slight smirk.

Then you have his emotional outbursts in The Galileo Seven and Amok Time, just to name a couple. Spock was a bubbling cauldron of emotion.
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Old November 15 2012, 01:36 AM   #20
jayrath
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Re: Kirk quote

[QUOTE=Captain McBain;7256095
Yes, I like the show, but I also try to be unbiased in life. Someone who defends another person no matter what they do or say isn't necessarily being unbiased.[/QUOTE]

Speaking of being "unbiased in life," here's a news flash. It's a FREAKING MOVIE. It's one fictional person delivering a tearful eulogy for another fictional character. You have a problem with Kirk's assessment of his friend? I suggest you give him a call at Starfleet. Your argument is with him, not us.
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Old November 15 2012, 03:35 PM   #21
Balrog
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Re: Kirk quote

I think you might be over-thinking this moment. Spock tried his entire life to suppress his human half. Yet it was Kirk who saw through that veneer to the heart his friend had. Kirk's eulogy did not speak just of Spock' final sacrifice (up to that point), but to the person Kirk always knew him to be, despite how much Spock attempted to run from it. It was a perfect Trek moment.
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Old November 24 2012, 03:03 AM   #22
Mojochi
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Re: Kirk quote

The quote is "Of all the souls I've encountered in my travels, his was the most human"

In that statement there is clearly an indication of speaking as an explorer, a traveler to alien worlds. Spock is a being alien to him, & of all the beings alien to him that he's encountered in his travels, Spock's was the most human. In that context, it is not even arguable

I choose to look on his statement as waxing poetic about how Spock was a singularity in his life, an alien being who had become closer to him & more human to him than any in an entire galaxy of beings he'd encountered

It is precisely because he isn't Human that it is worth noting how human he actually was. That's the whole point. At least that's how I interpreted it, anyway
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Old November 24 2012, 04:24 AM   #23
Melakon
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Re: Kirk quote

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Would you honestly think Picard would be justified in insisting that Data was the most human soul he ever encountered? Of course you wouldn't.
Not only are you telling us how we as individuals think in order to satisfy your own premise ("of course you wouldn't") you're forgetting a comment made by Picard himself when Data was believed dead.

"He was a man, take him for all in all, I shall not look upon his like again." (Picard quoting Shakespeare in "The Most Toys")

How dare he refer to an android as a man!

But you've already declared you're tired of arguing with people who don't see things the same way as you do, so Picard's beliefs will continue to escape your perception of how things are.
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Old November 26 2012, 06:46 PM   #24
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Re: Kirk quote

I find it funny, so many have said "Picard would never make such a statement about Data", yet, I've just finished watching S1 and S2 of TNG, and Data has been called "The Most Human" or similar by Picard at least once, by Dr Pulaski Once, and I believe a third character (Perhaps Troi or Tasha?) also
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