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Sports and Fitness It's football, not soccer.

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Old November 11 2012, 09:49 PM   #91
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Re: NHL Offseason

You know the story reported in good faith all week by journalists covering the owners’ lockout, that the league would be willing to withdraw most, if not all, of its proposed freedom restrictions other than the one on front-loaded contracts if the players would agree to go 50/50?
Well, it’s not true, not any more, if ever.

For this from an individual in the room for Friday’s negotiating sessions and confirmed word-for-word by Slap Shots by a source across the aisle:

“Near the end of the meeting, Don [Fehr] said to Gary [Bettman]: ‘Let me get this straight. Even if the players agree to every single component of the league’s economic plan, we still don’t have a deal unless we also agree to every one of your proposed changes to player contract rights?’ ”
To which, both of our sources reported, “Gary said: ‘Yes.’”
Fuck Bettman, fuck the NHL, burn it all down.

Edit: Also a reminder that it's not just the owners and Bettman doing this. It's also these assholes. Yeah, it's a mutual relationship and one asshole doesn't exist without the other, but don't forget about them. They've represented the NBA, NFL and now the NHL, and what has happened? Three for three on the lockout front.

Last edited by Timby; November 23 2012 at 11:46 PM.
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Old November 13 2012, 06:15 PM   #92
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Re: NHL Offseason

In other news, Pascal Leclaire has retired at the ripe old age of 30. The poor bastard just couldn't stay healthy.
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Old November 13 2012, 07:26 PM   #93
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Re: NHL Offseason

Just imagine what Columbus could've done with a healthy Leclaire...meh, probably would've been the same.
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Old November 13 2012, 08:42 PM   #94
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Re: NHL Offseason

Really rubbed my rhubarb to see that Russian rat Bure get in the Hall of Fame. Man I hope we don't retire his number.

On another note, was great to see Joe Sakic get his HOF dues. Guy is such a class act and top 5 players of all time for me.
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Old November 13 2012, 09:18 PM   #95
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Re: NHL Offseason

Sakic was a shoe-in. Sundin was pretty much a shoe-in as one of, if not the best, Swedish forward to ever play the game. Oates was known for his play-making skills. Bure was a pure-scorer, but I don't think he was one of those super players we are always going to remember. He was good in the early 90's and then seemed to drop off the planet.
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Old November 16 2012, 07:06 PM   #96
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Re: NHL Offseason

So now we're taking two weeks off?

This is just silly.

Why are these people so stupid? They could have been working on this for the past two off-seasons day in and day out working toward a deal. Besides tanning on a beach, what is Bettman, the owners, and the PA doing all summer? The owners want to break the union; the union wants to stand up and be seen as powerful after bowing down last time. And let me remind you the majority of top tier players are playing in Europe, only to show up for PR stunts that Fehr wants to pull.

I agree with Timby. Burn it down.
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Old November 16 2012, 07:34 PM   #97
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Re: NHL Offseason

Danny99 wrote: View Post
So now we're taking two weeks off?

This is just silly.

Why are these people so stupid? They could have been working on this for the past two off-seasons day in and day out working toward a deal. Besides tanning on a beach, what is Bettman, the owners, and the PA doing all summer? The owners want to break the union; the union wants to stand up and be seen as powerful after bowing down last time. And let me remind you the majority of top tier players are playing in Europe, only to show up for PR stunts that Fehr wants to pull.

I agree with Timby. Burn it down.
So this is official? Last I read it was a suggestion, but then again, didn't they take this week off too? How many weeks are they going to take off before the urgency really kicks in? Just cancel the season now for heavens sake.
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Old November 17 2012, 03:11 AM   #98
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Re: NHL Offseason

Danny99 wrote: View Post
the union wants to stand up and be seen as powerful after bowing down last time.
It's not the union wanting to be seen as powerful. It's the players refusing to bend over and get fucked in the ass for no reason, seven years after they gave the owners everything they wanted.

I have yet to see one compelling argument in favor of the owners' position. There is no reason the players should accept pay cuts across the board, severe cuts to their contractual rights and a lower share of the revenue pie when the league is making money hand over fist.

Last edited by Timby; November 17 2012 at 03:29 AM.
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Old November 17 2012, 03:25 AM   #99
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Re: NHL Offseason

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
So this is official? Last I read it was a suggestion, but then again, didn't they take this week off too? How many weeks are they going to take off before the urgency really kicks in? Just cancel the season now for heavens sake.
They probably will.

I don't see the point of them negotiating if they aren't willing to do it in good faith, so they might as well not waste their time.
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Old November 17 2012, 06:04 PM   #100
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Re: NHL Offseason

I have no idea how accurate this is, but it's an interesting gossip about the powerplay among the owners.

Is Flyers' Snider helping thaw NHL talks?

When it comes to labor negotiations, league rules require a a vote of 75 percent of governors to oppose the commissioner's recommendation. That means Bettman has absolute power, so long as he has eight out of 30 owners to block any hostile movement against him. Bettman actually needs only seven owners to support him, since the league owns the Phoenix franchise.

There have been many educated guesses over the last few weeks as to which franchises are a part of this "hardline" bargaining group of Bettman's staunchest allies, but my list first included Boston, Minnesota, Calgary, Washington, Dallas, Philadelphia and Anaheim, in addition to Phoenix.

...

That all has changed. On Friday, multiple sources indicated Snider's "strong discontent" for Bruins owner Jeremy Jacobs, a big-market owner who has been one of the lockout's ringleaders.

Despite their on-ice rivalry, there seems to be some thinking that the Flyers are interested in teaming up with the midmarket but high-revenue Pittsburgh Penguins to sway more governors toward a swift resolution. The Rangers are also viewed as anti-lockout.

...

When Bettman proposed the 2-week moratorium in talks this week, which would cause the players to miss their fourth of 13 paychecks, perhaps he was hoping they would get antsy and ask for a vote to end the lockout. Now, with the way things are going, Bettman is likely just hoping it doesn't result in a vote in his own boardroom.
The Philadelphia Daily News has been overly optimistic throughout this process, so I would take signs of hope with a grain of salt. However, it's absolutely crazy that seven owners are all that are needed to keep this thing going.
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Old November 18 2012, 12:12 AM   #101
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Re: NHL Offseason

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
The Philadelphia Daily News has been overly optimistic throughout this process, so I would take signs of hope with a grain of salt. However, it's absolutely crazy that seven owners are all that are needed to keep this thing going.
Yeah, we'll wait and see on this. Guys like Jacobs and Leonsis are firmly entrenched in the "fuck the players" camp.

Remember, Don Fehr went to Bettman and said, "Okay, look, what if we caved and gave you everything you want on hockey-related revenue. Would we then have room to negotiate on contractual pushbacks?" And Sir Douchenozzle said, "Nope, those have to happen, too."

Edit: This report appears to have some traction. After initially planning to take two weeks off, CBA discussions in New York will resume on Monday. Snider may be marshaling the troops.

Edit 2: Unconfirmed report that employees within the Bruins organization have been told to have the ice ready for Black Friday, but I'm taking that with a truck of salt.

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
Just cancel the season now for heavens sake.
The 2004 - 05 season wasn't canceled in full until February 16, 2005, for what it's worth.

Last edited by Timby; November 18 2012 at 12:28 AM.
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Old November 23 2012, 08:44 PM   #102
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Re: NHL Offseason

Games canceled through December 14 and the All-Star weekend has been scrapped. Talk of the NHLPA de-certifying and going after the NHL's antitrust exemption in the courts is starting to heat up.
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Old November 23 2012, 09:17 PM   #103
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Re: NHL Offseason

Timby wrote: View Post
Games canceled through December 14 and the All-Star weekend has been scrapped. Talk of the NHLPA de-certifying and going after the NHL's antitrust exemption in the courts is starting to heat up.
From what I have been reading here with the way these "negotiations" have been going and in light of the history here, I find it really hard to believe the NHLPA is just now "floating rumors" about doing this. The NFL players wasted no time getting to this action because they knew what a--holes they were dealing with. The NBA players, who have probably the most leverage of any of the professional team sports, even decided on this action in less time.

Unless I'm missing something, the NHL players union, who have never appeared to have much bargaining power, should have de-certified and begun anti-trust lawsuits weeks ago. At this point, the union may have waited so long that player support of the union may be in jeapardy. What is with their leadership?
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Old November 23 2012, 09:47 PM   #104
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Re: NHL Offseason

gblews wrote: View Post
Unless I'm missing something, the NHL players union, who have never appeared to have much bargaining power, should have de-certified and begun anti-trust lawsuits weeks ago. At this point, the union may have waited so long that player support of the union may be in jeapardy. What is with their leadership?
De-certification and antitrust lawsuits are very, very expensive propositions, and the NHLPA isn't on the same firm financial footing that the NFLPA and NBPA were when they initiated those actions. The NFLPA, for example, had a secret insurance fund that would have paid every player $200,000 in the event that the 2011 season were canceled; it was able to afford that because it had more than $200 million in the bank during the spring of 2011. De-certification is the nuclear option and commits the NHLPA to a lot of very expensive maneuvering. I don't think it'll happen until the NHL cancels the entire season.

Fehr is a master negotiator, and it's important to keep in mind that Bettman and the owners have never faced a strong union before, which is why they keep pushing buttons -- this is uncharted territory for them. Fehr spent 32 years fucking Major League Baseball up the ass and got the sport to a point where they've had 17 years of uninterrupted labor peace.

Remember, the league opened up this labor war by demanding that the players give up everything, and the only movement from them is now they're demanding the players give up almost everything. Fehr knows what he's doing, and believe me, he's got the support of the players. Fehr doesn't set policy: He'll guide and he'll advise and he'll suggest, but at the end of the day he doesn't make decisions, he lets the players make decisions. He dominated baseball by knowing to reduce demands rather than negotiating without the full support of his union.
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Old November 30 2012, 04:25 AM   #105
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Re: NHL Offseason

Just go ahead and cancel the season already. The meetings with the federal mediators have ended in failure.
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