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TV & Media Non-Trek television, movies, books, music, etc.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 45 25.71%
A 48 27.43%
A- 29 16.57%
B+ 14 8.00%
B 8 4.57%
B- 11 6.29%
C+ 4 2.29%
C 4 2.29%
C- 7 4.00%
D+ 2 1.14%
D 1 0.57%
D- 0 0%
F 2 1.14%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 19 2012, 10:34 AM   #256
The Haunting
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
One silly thing that bothered me is that Bond didn't take at least one more shot at Silva when he did his bit with the subway.

There were some parts of this that were definitely silly and credibility straining but then again this is Bond after all so I don't hold that too much against it.

Was some truly beautiful shots in this, this will be one to watch again just for the sights.

It will be interesting to see where they go with the next movie having set up so many of the more traditional Bond trappings. Perhaps we'll get a less introspective adventure next time out.


Joel_Kirk wrote: View Post
I understand that Idris Elba has been in talks with Barbara Broccoli to take over someday; I wouldn't mind seeing that. (I'm watching the BBC series, "Luther," and Elba definitely has the acting/action chops).
As I've said before I think Idris Elba's name is bandied about in consideration for all roles. I don't know how he'll find time to be Bond until he's done being Doctor Who.
No, no, no...no more Idris Elba should be Bond or the Doctor.

Well he could probably pull of being Bond, but not the Doctor, he just isn't quirky enough. and to be honest he couldn't be Bond unless for some reason Craig ducked out right now, he's already in his early forties, if DC does another 2 films he's going to be close to 47/48 and there's no point.

I've been a huge fan of Elba's since Ultraviolet, and I have no major problem with a black Bond/Who, hell I'd wanted Patterson Jospeh to be the Doctor for years and I still think Colin Salmon would have made a good 007, but I just don't quite see Elba as a fit for either role.
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Old November 19 2012, 01:52 PM   #257
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

teacake wrote: View Post
So. How much Dench was in it?
A lot more than two previous Bond movies.

The movie is yet to open in Australia, but tonight went to a preview screening. Wasn't full, but everyone seemed to enjoy it. Found it very enjoyable. It's up with the best movies so far this year.

I want to see it again, which will most likely be Thursday when it opens or over the weekend.
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Old November 19 2012, 03:19 PM   #258
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Two interesting critiques:

New Yorker - Skyfall:The Bond Market

Giles Coren on sexism in Skyfall

I think the NY review is a bit dour but have some sympathy on the pre-credit sequence. The Coren piece is interesting read and comments are a riot
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Old November 19 2012, 03:36 PM   #259
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Interestingly there's a Guardian piece that says the opposite about sexism in Skyfall, I'm not sure the person who wrote it had actually seen the film...

As for Mr Coren's piece...

Well M being replaced by Mallory, women are replaced by men all the time in the workplace, just as men are replaced by women. Given Dench had obviously decided enough was enough should they have only replaced her with a woman? Wouldn't that have been...sexist?

I still feel Severine is using Bond as much as she's using him, remember this women left Bond to his fate in the casino. These men are going to kill you, if you survive why not come and find me!

Moneypenny he maybe has a point over, but even then his argument is a little weak. So Eve decides she isn't suited to work in the field, you could say the same about Q.

And as for Silva. Gay people can be evil, same as straight people can be evil, black, white, asian...guess what there's good and bad in all colours and creeds and sexuality. He's still not exactly my Wynt or My Kidd! Plus for all we know he's coming on to Bond merely to unsettle him.

The waste of good scotch line is a bit jarring, but I imagined Bond was keeping Silva's goons off guard, he did kick all their arses 5 seconds later...of course you could ask why he didn't do this before severine was shot
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Old November 19 2012, 05:47 PM   #260
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Honestly, complaining a Bond movie is sexist is like complaining an airplane is flying or boat sailing. It's a fact of the franchise that has been an ongoing success for 50 years. Recent movies, particularly with Brosnan and especially since Craig took over have been less demeaning towards women and have given women characters substantial parts in the film at times helping Bond and being integral to victory. But in the end Bond is still meant to be the dude other guys dream of being and if that means swooping in and killing bad guys and then making out with women who were being held captive by the bad guys, then guess what, that's a formula that has worked for the past 50 years. If that bothers you, than Bond isn't your thing. Maybe that is sexist, but it's also not evil.

Still, in regards to comments made in that article:

-As mentioned above, Dench wanted this to be her last Bond movie, and there's nothing sexist just because her replacement happens to be a man. If they removed a woman from the role even though she wanted to continue and replaced her with a man, that might be sexist, but this? That's like saying Paramount is sexist just because the next Trek series after Voyager ended had a male captain. Or for that matter, they must be rascist because the next two Trek series after DS9 had white captains.

-Maybe I'm completely out to lunch here, but I was under the impression that Bond having sex with Severine was consensual. Yes, maybe he should have tried to take out Silva's goons before Silva shot her, but this is not the first time such a plot hole has ocurred, Bond movie or otherwise.

-Moneypenny has always been the "secretary," Skyfall just made her more badass and attempted to explain believably how a secretary could be badass. Besides, it seemed like she was gravitating more towards administrative work out of a preferance, not being forced into it. What exactly is the article trying to say, that women shouldn't do what they prefer to do, they should focus exclusively on a man's job? Isn't that equally offensive as blatant sexism?
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Old November 19 2012, 06:10 PM   #261
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Giles Coren wrote an interesting article? Has he broken the habit of a lifetime then?
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Old November 19 2012, 07:57 PM   #262
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

A+

Usual gut reactions:

-More proof that most movie critics have no idea what they're talking about. The reviews I read were mostly lukewarm.

-So, does the new "Q" even own a razor yet?

-Javier Bardem wasn't that over-the-top. From the buzz I'd expected Sean Hayes from "Will and Grace."

-Nerd Woody when the old Aston Martin was unveiled!

-"Welcome to Scotland!" Albert Finney, bad-ass.

-M: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Now the series will continue without the awesomeness of Dame Judi Dench! Can't we clone this M or make her a virtual computer or something?

-BTW, found it kind of weird and time loopy to watch them blow up SIS's real-life HQ just to bring Bond and company back to the fake office from "Dr. No."

-Still, like the new Moneypenny.
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Old November 19 2012, 08:01 PM   #263
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

It was a good movie, but I found it kind of weird. It almost felt like another reboot of the Bond franchise. The actor may have been the same, but this movie just felt so separated from the other two Daniel Craig films. "Casino Royale" and "Quantum of Solace" felt, to me, as if they were setting up a trilogy. I was expecting Skyfall's story to be more related to the events of the first two films.

And while I thought what's-his-face did a great job playing Silva, I couldn't help thinking that I had no idea who this guy was. His "turn to the dark side" and his vendetta against M would have worked better if we had actually met the guy before.

When they finally got around to revealing him as the villain, I kept expecting to see a familiar face. Imagine if Silva was played by Sean Connery or Roger Moore (or hell, even Pierce Brosnan)! An old 007 turned bad! Now THAT would have been awesome.
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Old November 19 2012, 09:13 PM   #264
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

lurok wrote: View Post
Two interesting critiques:

New Yorker - Skyfall:The Bond Market

Giles Coren on sexism in Skyfall

I think the NY review is a bit dour but have some sympathy on the pre-credit sequence. The Coren piece is interesting read and comments are a riot
I think that Coren has a bit of a nerve lecturing about sexism, given that he used Twitter to call a female journalist 'a barren old hag.'

Ghost Bones wrote: View Post
Giles Coren wrote an interesting article? Has he broken the habit of a lifetime then?
Indeed.
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Old November 20 2012, 12:53 AM   #265
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

To be fair, she had committed the cardinal sin of pointing out one of his articles was complete f****** s*** by an up-himself c***. Still, he's better than his sister.
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Old November 20 2012, 11:08 AM   #266
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

^That's damning by faint praise if ever I saw it!
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Old November 23 2012, 06:50 AM   #267
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

This is me, eating crow:

I said some negative things about Craig's Bond in the past, and decried the general state of the Bond franchise's "new direction". The only reason the last two films and Craig himself never made the absolute bottom of my lists was because the Dalton Bonds (and Dalton) existed.

I fully expected to not like this movie when a friend asked me if I wanted to go see it (his treat). And, indeed, I really didn't like about the first 50-60% of the film, same "tired" feel to the presentation. Craig "thugging" his way through the role. Absolutely hated the whole "eye in the sky" thing with M basically running the mission from London.

Then the story took everything I thought was wrong with this incarnation of Bond and very self-awaredly used it in story to turn the film 180 degrees hard over.

Everyone was saying that MI-6 as run by M and as represented by Bond was "a dinosaur", "old", "played out", etc. "We don't do things that way any more..." and so forth.

But it was those "old, played out dinosaurs" who, in the end, got the job done where the "new" MI-6 was constantly one step behind because in the 21st century, everyone (including the enemy) knows all the high-tech tricks. Or to paraphrase Bond "It's time to do things Old School..." (cue the Aston Martin :thumbsup.

I thought Mallory was a prick, but he redeemed himself nicely during the battle at the Ministry hearing, which (going back to the hearing before the attack) was very nicely done, with Dame Judith's M finally stating in story the film's thesis as I outlined it above. Bonus points for her inclusion of one of my favorite bits of poetry (Ulysses).

By the time the film was over, and we were in the last scenes in the office, I was sold, both on Bond (again) and on Craig's ability to play the more "glam" Bond, double-entendres and all. They even went back to acutal PAPER files. That which is not online cannot be hacked, after all.

In short, I LOVED this movie...can't wait to see the next one if it's going to continue this "soft reboot"...
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Old November 23 2012, 02:43 PM   #268
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Saw this in the worst theater in the local multiplex, dimmest picture and worst sound and completely level floor. I couldn't tell what happened on the train. The most interesting thing was the sudden appearance of a length of loose chain. If it was Bond who was supposed to have been shot and fallen off the train into the river, he was killed. I suppose this makes the new Bond series a paranormal romance? Ghost Bond in his own little dream world?

Javier Bardem's plan to be captured makes as much sense as Loki's plan to be captured in The Avengers. Bardem's ability to hack their system meant that he could have kidnapped Judi Dench instead of blowing up the headquarters, rendering the largest part of the action pointless.

Also, all those shenanigans over the urge to kill one woman? How do you recruit dozens of men to die for one man's hobby? None of this is about things that really matter. It was especially difficult to believe that today's intelligence services really have their own officers infiltrating anything. They just entrap overexcited by gullible young men.

Bardem's sexual menaces to Craig were deftly countered with the question about the first time. The whole gay issue is just a joke. Torture scenes that are jokes are very Joss Whedon Quimself. I suppose this is good if you admire Quimself, I don't. Ben Whishaw may pose a real gay issue but that's kind of reaching for offense I think.

I wasn't excited about going back to the 60's with Moneypenny and male M, so the denouement was at best bemusing.

I went with family members for the holiday. Happily a couple were much more satisfied, but I was pretty bored. The most interesting thing in the movie was the remarkable empty subway train. The action sequences were smoothly done, but they didn't matter, any more than Bond matters. C-
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Old November 23 2012, 06:47 PM   #269
Ian Keldon
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

lurok wrote: View Post
Two interesting critiques:

New Yorker - Skyfall:The Bond Market

Giles Coren on sexism in Skyfall

I think the NY review is a bit dour but have some sympathy on the pre-credit sequence. The Coren piece is interesting read and comments are a riot
Coren makes a complete a** out of himself. He completely ignores or dismisses the context of both the shower scene (she invited Bond to the boat), and the "William Tell" scene (Bond was trying to not show weakness in front of Silva).

Regarding his other two major points against the film:

1) Judi Dench’s ‘M’ dies, and is replaced by a man;
Doesn't automatically make it mysogynist or anti-woman. Spies die, unfortunately. Does Coren really expect that there would never ever be another male "M"?

and


3) The pretty girl who manages to remain chaste despite Bond’s ‘charms’ is rewarded at the end with a job as his secretary.
Again, Coren is completely ignoring the whole subplot about her deciding she was not a good field agent and choosing a desk job.

He's also ignores her very competent showing in the casino, which makes her more than the token "pretty girl who resists Bond's charms"

Finally, Coren also apparently does not understand the significance of the "shaving" scene. Bond has monumental trust issues, both as a result of his profession AND his personal experience with Eve. That he would allow her to put a deadly blade to his throat is a demonstration that he in fact does trust her immensely, teasing remarks notwithstanding.

Coren comes off as the typical "feminist man", bending over backwards to find and decry misogyny to establish that he's "not like that".
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Old November 23 2012, 07:43 PM   #270
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Re: Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Coren comes off as the typical "feminist man", bending over backwards to find and decry misogyny to establish that he's "not like that".
That's a good line, and descriptive of quite a few people. I shall be using it.
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