Was Star Trek 11 too similar to Star Wars?

[Greg Cox]

umichigan wrote:

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My intention was not exclude anyone, merely to remind that it was those who came before and watched Trek in syndication for years (on channel 50, Kaiser Broadcasting in Detroit, where it all started) that helped to establish the vast universe of Trek in which you reside. If not for a devotion to TOS and its characters by individuals along with me, YOUR hobby and devotion to Abrams would have no purchase.

Let's not make this a generational thing. I'm an old-timer who got hooked on TOS during its original run on NBC, and also grew up watching the show in syndication. And I still think that the reboot is the best thing to happen to Star Trek since at least DS9 . . . .

[M'Sharak]

umichigan wrote:

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My intention was not exclude anyone, merely to remind that it was those who came before and watched Trek in syndication for years (on channel 50, Kaiser Broadcasting in Detroit, where it all started) that helped to establish the vast universe of Trek in which you reside. If not for a devotion to TOS and its characters by individuals along with me, YOUR hobby and devotion to Abrams would have no purchase.

It's been my observation that a significant portion of those who enjoyed the latest take on Trek are the same ones who have been watching since Trek's original run (you know: the part which came before 1970s syndication). Further, the notion that a divide exists strictly along the lines of older fans/new fans or older generation/younger generation has been demonstrated again and again to be a faulty assumption - it simply isn't true.

If you didn't like what Abrams & Co. have done, well, then - you didn't like it, and that's your prerogative. Let's not pretend, however, that anyone is owed anything for having been a fan all those years. It's just a TV show and a series of movies, after all.

umichigan wrote:

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If you want to like the alternate Trek, feel free to do so but stop trying to change the minds of those who feel otherwise. What we loved was tainted, likely beyond repair. We're never going to be happy about that.

Again, if you decide to be unhappy, that's your prerogative, and I won't attempt to dissuade you from it. Do try to bear in mind, however, that you're not speaking for all of the old fans, and that not all of us are necessarily of the opinion that anything has been tainted (whether beyond repair or otherwise.)

[Greg Cox]

M'Sharak wrote:

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It's been my observation that a significant portion of those who enjoyed the latest take on Trek are the same ones who have been watching since Trek's original run (you know: the part which came before 1970s syndication). Further, the notion that a divide exists strictly along the lines of older fans/new fans or older generation/younger generation has been demonstrated again and again to be a faulty assumption - it simply isn't true.

Exactly. I had no intention to get sucked into this debate again, but this idea that only callow young people like the new movie and us old-timers are all obliged to resent it just keeps popping up no matter how many times we drive a stake through it. Plenty of us first-generation fans love the new movie and think that it actually does a better job of capturing the zest and energy of TOS than some of the later incarnations.

(I actually have a pet theory, based on no solid evidence whatsover, that it's actually the TNG era fans who have the most trouble with the new movie--in part because they expect something more stately and dignified when it comes to Trek.)

[M'Sharak]

Greg Cox wrote:

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(I actually have a pet theory, based on no solid evidence whatsover, that it's actually the TNG era fans who have the most trouble with the new movie--in part because they expect something more stately and dignified when it comes to Trek.)

I've been noticing something similar at least since the time of Enterprise's original run, if not before: the most energetic disapproval of things new or different in Trek seems to come from those who really identified first with TNG (even though their earliest exposure to Trek may well have come via syndicated showings of TOS episodes during the 1970s and early 1980s.)

Based on no solid evidence, as you say, and I really have no interest in pursuing it any further; I don't have a need to be right about it (nor, by extension, to make someone else be wrong.) It's merely a thing I've noticed on occasion, while slogging through Trek-forum lectures about how "you younger people have no appreciation, blah blah blah... "

[umichigan]

Actually, I have no bias one way or the other regarding age or devotion to Trek (except maybe that I prefer Trekkie to Trekker). This is a case of me having a hard time fully expressing myself via text alone.

At the risk of making things worse, let me try to re-state...

Nah, I really can't. Too many thoughts on the subject to organize them properly. Here are a few random thoughts...

I genuinely feel that Trek is a universal phenomenon that could potential be appreciated by just about anyone.

I will always prefer TOS as established and more or less maintained over the last 40-ish years. Abrams re-wrote the book in an unnecessary way that I dislike from a character standpoint. It's not about age, it's that he just doesn't seem to either get it or care to get it.

I understand the value of trying to open up Trek to a new generation, but when he was trying to breathe new life into the series I wish he hadn't been smoking so much.

[Dukhat]

umichigan wrote:

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Geez, some people are really touchy.

And some people like to use hyperbole a lot. QED.

umichigan wrote:

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...it's that he just doesn't seem to either get it or care to get it.

No offense, but I'm pretty sure Abrams got it.

[Chemahkuu]

M'Sharak wrote:

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I've been noticing something similar at least since the time of Enterprise's original run, if not before: the most energetic disapproval of things new or different in Trek seems to come from those who really identified first with TNG."

Watched TNG first when I was 5, love Enterprise and the new movie.

[teacake]

M'Sharak wrote:

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I've been noticing something similar at least since the time of Enterprise's original run, if not before: the most energetic disapproval of things new or different in Trek seems to come from those who really identified first with TNG (even though their earliest exposure to Trek may well have come via syndicated showings of TOS episodes during the 1970s and early 1980s.)

Based on no solid evidence, as you say, and I really have no interest in pursuing it any further; I don't have a need to be right about it (nor, by extension, to make someone else be wrong.) It's merely a thing I've noticed on occasion, while slogging through Trek-forum lectures about how "you younger people have no appreciation, blah blah blah... "

I've noticed that for years. Both on forums and in real life interactions.

I'm an old fan. I like JJTrek rather a lot.

[King Daniel Into Darkness]

It was my uninformed opinion that the majority of the nuTrek haters were fans more interested in the Treknicalities of Trek than the stories. Those for whom a reimagined and bigger Enterprise or a beer brewery engine room were deal breakers because they didn't fit with their established design perameters of Federation starships.

Although I suppose they may be TNG fans foremost, too - it was The Next Generation that cranked up the technobabble and marketed manuals detailing the workings of everything that established those design perameters in the first place. Then JJ Abrams comes along and rolls back to the technobabble-free, just-do-it-don't-explain-it attitude of The Original Series.

[Sheridan]

I grew up watching TNG-era shows and TOS and the TOS movies about at the same age. I loved the new Star Trek movie. It's not perfect but I think it's a substantial improvement compared to the majority of previous trek films.

Star Trek 11 was mostly an sci fi adventure action movie which is not at all uncharacteristic of Star Trek. Many episodes in all of the series were primarily action. Star Treks 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 10 were also substantially action movies in varying degrees.

But there's also the deep philosophical and political side to Star Trek which wasn't found much if at all in Star Trek 11. Personally I would have liked to have seen that in Star Trek 11 but it may have gone against the purpose of Star Trek 11 and that is to revitalize Star Trek and make it fresh and relevant again. But hopefully that will be seen more Star Trek Into Darkness.

The RedLetterMedia review is similar to my opinion of the film: http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/s.../star-trek-09/

[Greg Cox]

My other wacky theory is that it's the TNG era fans who are still in mourning for the whole TNG/DS9/VOY era of STAR TREK--and perhaps unfairly blame the reboot for driving the final nail into the coffin of that particular version of the 24th Century. (At least on screen.)

As opposed to us first-generation TOS fans who weren't expecting to see any more TOS shows or movies anyway--and were pleasantly surprised to have Kirk and Spock and that whole crowd back again.

[Hartzilla2007]

Greg Cox wrote:

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My other wacky theory is that it's the TNG era fans who are still in mourning for the whole TNG/DS9/VOY era of STAR TREK--and perhaps unfairly blame the reboot for driving the final nail into the coffin of that particular version of the 24th Century. (At least on screen.)

As opposed to us first-generation TOS fans who weren't expecting to see any more TOS shows or movies anyway--and were pleasantly surprised to have Kirk and Spock and that whole crowd back again.

Is it wired that I'm only 24 and as time goes I find I perfer TOS more than the other treks?

(Don't get me wrong I still like the 24th century stuff and Enterprise, I just like TOS more.)

I mean the universe was bigger and more dangerous and it seemed more interesting, also the people seemed more like people.

[teacake]

When Episode VII comes out I wonder if there will be people wringing their hands and saying Star Wars is now too much like Star Trek.

[Greg Cox]

teacake wrote:

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When Episode VII comes out I wonder if there will be people wringing their hands and saying Star Wars is now too much like Star Trek.

Nah, they'll say it's too much like John Carter of Mars!

[teacake]

Dejah Thoris and Leia battle it out for the title of QUEEN of the Disney Princesses.