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Old November 21 2012, 02:53 PM   #91
NotLKH
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
snip...
We Will Destroy Your Planet - An Alien's Guide To Conquering The Earth (Osprey, October)
Oh oh! Sounds like something The Voltar Confederacy either used or wrote after their botched attempt in Hubbards "Mission Earth" dekalogy. lol, I loved that series.
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Old November 21 2012, 04:19 PM   #92
trash80
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

War Of Horus And Set looks very interesting, its been added to my Amazon wish list
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Old November 21 2012, 04:28 PM   #93
Lonemagpie
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

NotLKH wrote: View Post
Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
snip...
We Will Destroy Your Planet - An Alien's Guide To Conquering The Earth (Osprey, October)
Oh oh! Sounds like something The Voltar Confederacy either used or wrote after their botched attempt in Hubbards "Mission Earth" dekalogy. lol, I loved that series.
I actually originally thought of it as a handbook given to Daleks...
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Old November 21 2012, 04:30 PM   #94
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

I've been thinking about all this and it bothers me in a number of ways, and the issues are all editorial.

The editor certainly has the right to request revisions in the plot and characters, but they are also acting as 'continuity cops' in a shared universe like Trek. Putting characters in that don't fit is a schoolboy error.

Not catching the mistake during later stages of the process is worrying.

On receipt of the finished novel, and realising that problems exist there are two serious options. Apologising to the author, requesting a rewrite and paying extra for the extra work probably wouldn't happen as margins are tight and the publishing date is probably locked in by then, which leaves option two. Address the issues in future novels and work around them / explain them away - retcon. At no point is the 'it didn't happen' option a good one.

Not discussing any of this with the author is disrespectful.

David A McIntee has a bunch of other work and it doesn't look like losing future Trek commissions will be career ending issue for him, but it has put him in a difficult situation and to some extent, it has done the same for David Mack.

David Mack has written follow on works in good faith and I am enjoying them greatly. It would have been fairly easy to have addressed some of the issues but he was not given the option - I wish he had been. Also I would have very much liked to have had the opportunity to read the two novels that became Indistinguishable From Magic as they were originally planned by David A McIntee.

Both authors have taken a practical and pragmatic approach that us continuity obsessed fanboy types probably don't. They do it for a living and treat it professionally. It's a shame I can't say that about the editors involved.

So, Indistinguishable From Magic is no longer 'in continuity'. I presume Scotty is still alive then ? How about Geordi's mother ? And is Bobby Ewing still in the shower ?
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Old November 21 2012, 06:57 PM   #95
MatthiasRussell
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I presume Scotty is still alive then ?
There's a thought.


Something that does worry me about this is does ignoring IFM open the door for future writers and editors to pick and choose what they want to ignore since the beginning of the "relaunch"? I've come to accept things like Ship of the Line didn't happen but Immortal Coil did and New Frontier is in continuity limbo (what's the deal with Nacheyev anyways).

One of the things that got me reading trek again were the editorial controls that gives me the sense that what happens in a book is relevant to future happenings. I can accept that STO, the books, and the comics all have different continuity but I think those different branches of continuity should respect the history they have established within themselves as much as possible.

So although this particular occurance doesn't bother me too much as a trek fan and consumer, I hope the door has not been openned to this to become a regular practice and trek books don't fall back into the state they were in during the 90s.
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Old November 21 2012, 07:16 PM   #96
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

Bit of blogging on the issue.

http://www.thetrekcollective.com/201...-lit-bits.html

I was not aware that KRAD was in exile, so to speak.
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Old November 21 2012, 07:49 PM   #97
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I presume Scotty is still alive then ?
There's a thought.
Didn't Scotty beam off an exploding ship to parts unknown, then they had a memorial because they *thought* he was dead? Not quite a definitive demise.
Something that does worry me about this is does ignoring IFM open the door for future writers and editors to pick and choose what they want to ignore since the beginning of the "relaunch"? I've come to accept things like Ship of the Line didn't happen but Immortal Coil did and New Frontier is in continuity limbo (what's the deal with Nacheyev anyways).
I don't think they'll regress back to the 90's, but if this is any indication, there won't be many new authors telling stories in the ongoing novelverse. There's a HUGE amount of continuity to keep track of (I personally didn't notice 99% of the "errors" from IFM and I've read most of those books it supposedly contradicted!), and if any new authors' make even a few deviations....
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Old November 21 2012, 08:17 PM   #98
shanejayell
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

That's part of what a editor is supposed to do. Make sure the continuity lines up.

It's part of why this so annoys me... instead of suggesting a simple fix in Mack's book they just decided "Eh, too much trouble, toss IFM out."
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Old November 22 2012, 01:05 AM   #99
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

shanejayell wrote: View Post
That's part of what a editor is supposed to do. Make sure the continuity lines up.
Of course I guess the recent mass change of editors that the line has seen over the past couple of years since Margot and Marco left kind of messes that up. Sure the new editor might get some of the old editor's notes on different projects, but if they decide to do a 180, they do a 180 instead of heading straight.
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Old November 22 2012, 03:46 AM   #100
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

So let me clarify something: there's absolutely no mention of IFM's events in Cold Equations and Geordi is more or less where he was at the end of Paths of Disharmony?
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Old November 22 2012, 09:02 AM   #101
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

Yup. The whole thing is being ignored.
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Old November 22 2012, 11:22 AM   #102
trash80
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

Oh well, its still the best Trek novel i've read for years, the editors can go fly!
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Old November 22 2012, 12:50 PM   #103
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

I'm glad that lots of people liked (and hopefully will continue to like) it, and touched that even those who didn't are sympathetic.
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Old November 22 2012, 04:46 PM   #104
DigificWriter
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

shanejayell wrote: View Post
Yup. The whole thing is being ignored.
That's BS, then, because it means that parts of DRGIII's triumphant resurrection of DS9 - Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn - are suddenly inaccurate and apocryphal too. Whoever made the decision that IFM didn't happen really didn't think things through.

Looks like I'll have to ignore this new trilogy and hope that future books don't screw over the wider novel continuity any further.
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Old November 22 2012, 05:05 PM   #105
Christopher
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Re: So we're undoing Indistinguishable from magic?

DigificWriter wrote: View Post
...it means that parts of DRGIII's triumphant resurrection of DS9 - Plagues of Night and Raise the Dawn - are suddenly inaccurate and apocryphal too.
Not necessarily. It could be that some elements from the book happened similarly in the main novelverse -- kind of like how Lucasfilm handles its tie-ins when elements of them don't quite fit together.

Really, there's always been stuff about ST that doesn't quite fit together, even within any single series. See the links in KingDaniel's signature for examples. And there are a fair number of contradictions between novels in the main Pocket continuity as well. Is Boreth a lifeless ice world or a jungle world? Did Keiko really surprise O'Brien with the same news twice in Aftermath and Unity? And so on. We do our best, but some things slip under the radar.

So it's generally best to accept that what we see or read in Trek is an interpretation of events and is subject to imprecision, and not get too concerned about every last detail.
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