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Old November 20 2012, 06:38 PM   #16
RoJoHen
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It wouldn't be a prayer, because a prayer is a message to a supernatural being, but people are inspired by poems, songs, quotes, affirmations and the like. This is pretty universal Human behavior.
Let's call it an Agnostic Mission Statement.
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Old November 20 2012, 06:46 PM   #17
thestrangequark
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It wouldn't be a prayer, because a prayer is a message to a supernatural being, but people are inspired by poems, songs, quotes, affirmations and the like. This is pretty universal Human behavior.
Let's call it an Agnostic Mission Statement.
That reminds me, I went on Okcupid, and they have the standard religion choices (Christian, Hindu, agnostic, atheist, etc) and then qualifiers, ("and not very serious about it," "and laughing about it," etc). Well, I thought "Agnostic and very serious about it" was hilarious!
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Old November 20 2012, 06:48 PM   #18
RoJoHen
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It wouldn't be a prayer, because a prayer is a message to a supernatural being, but people are inspired by poems, songs, quotes, affirmations and the like. This is pretty universal Human behavior.
Let's call it an Agnostic Mission Statement.
That reminds me, I went on Okcupid, and they have the standard religion choices (Christian, Hindu, agnostic, atheist, etc) and then qualifiers, ("and not very serious about it," "and laughing about it," etc). Well, I thought "Agnostic and very serious about it" was hilarious!
So many people wouldn't understand why that's funny.
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Old November 20 2012, 06:55 PM   #19
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Re: The Agonstic Prayer

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
My favorite Serenity Prayer parody:

"Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the Courage to change the things I cannot accept, and
the Wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today because they pissed me off.

And also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on today
as they be connected to the ass that I may have to kiss tomorrow.
This one works for me!

Yeah, I really don't pray or feel a need to recite a prayer, poem or excerpt of any kind. While I lean a little more to the agnostic side than the atheist side, I typically feel like the only person in control of my destiny is me. If I am stressed or I find myself in a situation, the only person I should be talking to is.... myself. And I don't need prayer to tell me what to do.
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Old November 20 2012, 07:13 PM   #20
Haggis and tatties
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

I dont believe any of this.
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Old November 20 2012, 07:55 PM   #21
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Re: The Agonstic Prayer

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
I guess the distinction is whether you are a religious agnostic, like Emoborg or an agnostic atheist, like you, J (at least, that's what you seem to be, correct me if I'm wrong!). For a religious agnostic, admittedly, a philosophy I have trouble understanding, I suppose there could be some worth in prayer. I don't really think praying necessarily displays any kind of moral center, though, and if you're praying just to show you have a moral center, well, isn't that worse?
Matthew 6:5-6:6 wrote:
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men.
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen.
I would advise the OP that if he wants to show that he has moral center, to live kindly, honestly, and productively. Religion is not necessary for morality, and neither is prayer. "Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
I see what you're saying, and I do agree. I guess it was a bit for me to wrap around the idea that "God probably doesn't exist, and though we don't really know, I'm praying just to be sure." Your point makes it clearer.

Thank you, tsq!
(Also, yes, I'm an agnostic atheist).
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Old November 21 2012, 01:53 AM   #22
Spot's Meow
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
We agnostic still believe in a higher force but reject organized religion.
I consider myself to be agnostic but don’t feel that it matches with your description here. As an agnostic, I feel that we as humans have no way of knowing whether a “higher force” exists or not. There may be a supernatural power, it may be God, or it may be something else, or it may not exist at all and life is only a result of our physical world. Unless substantial evidence is provided within my lifetime, I will have to wait until I die to find out the truth. If life simply ends and there is no afterlife, then I won’t give a damn anymore anyway.

So, I don’t feel that there can necessarily be a common prayer among agnostics, to express our common morality. We don’t have a common morality; everyone follows their own intuition of what is right and wrong. I express my morality in the choices I make and the way I treat others on a daily basis.

I can think of a basic mantra for agnostics though: “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
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Old November 21 2012, 03:36 AM   #23
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

Spot's Meow wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
We agnostic still believe in a higher force but reject organized religion.
I consider myself to be agnostic but don’t feel that it matches with your description here. As an agnostic, I feel that we as humans have no way of knowing whether a “higher force” exists or not. There may be a supernatural power, it may be God, or it may be something else, or it may not exist at all and life is only a result of our physical world. Unless substantial evidence is provided within my lifetime, I will have to wait until I die to find out the truth. If life simply ends and there is no afterlife, then I won’t give a damn anymore anyway.

So, I don’t feel that there can necessarily be a common prayer among agnostics, to express our common morality. We don’t have a common morality; everyone follows their own intuition of what is right and wrong. I express my morality in the choices I make and the way I treat others on a daily basis.

I can think of a basic mantra for agnostics though: “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
Yes, agnosticism and gnosticism are about knowledge, while atheism and theism are about belief.

When it comes to the god of the Bible I would say say that I do not believe in him, and I know he isn't real. When it comes to some other forms of god I would have to say I have no knowledge concerning that god, an in lieu of any evidence of that god I see no reason to start believing in him.

However I am of the opinion that anything that can exist in or react with this Universe is natural (but possibly unexplained). Because everything that exists is natural than nothing is supernatural. Not sure where this leaves some of the gods.

Added to this is the fact that someone needs to define 'god' before I can even start to say if I believe or have knowledge of that god at all.
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Old November 21 2012, 07:16 AM   #24
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

I am not a religious agnostic. Agnostics reject religion but not a higher power. Atheist are those who don't believe in a higher power. To call me a religious agnostic sounds ridiculous to me. I consider all religion to be man made, an attempt to understand and explain the universal force.

I don't have a materialist view of the universe like Atheists. I do believe in Spirituality. Calling me a spiritual agnostic is more suitable.
You can be Spiritual and still pray without invoking a religious based deity.
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Old November 21 2012, 07:31 AM   #25
Miss Chicken
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

I don't think that I believe in a "higher power" though I don't really know what a higher power might or might not mean. Like 'God' it is such a broad and ill-define term that it is next to useless.

I consider myself to be an agnostic atheist to the general term of God (or Higher Power), I have seen no proof of it, have therefore no reason to believe in it but I am open to fact that. someday, someone might provide some evidence to prove that their God (or Higher Power) is real.

However I have dismissed totally all the Gods and 'Higher Powers" that have so far been put in front of me. The evidence put before me has not been convincing in the slightest.
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Old November 21 2012, 10:53 AM   #26
RJDonner&Blitzen
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
It wouldn't be a prayer, because a prayer is a message to a supernatural being, but people are inspired by poems, songs, quotes, affirmations and the like. This is pretty universal Human behavior.
Let's call it an Agnostic Mission Statement.
Exactly. Or Non-Vision Statement.
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Old November 21 2012, 01:28 PM   #27
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

Prayer and ritual are ways of focusing thoughts and desires and as such can be amazingly powerful. I have no problem using a tool that works and have simply replaced any deity with 'spirit' or 'universe' when I do what's commonly known as praying.

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Old November 21 2012, 05:18 PM   #28
thestrangequark
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
I am not a religious agnostic. Agnostics reject religion but not a higher power. Atheist are those who don't believe in a higher power. To call me a religious agnostic sounds ridiculous to me. I consider all religion to be man made, an attempt to understand and explain the universal force.
Some agnostics reject religion but not a higher power. Most agnostics I know are actually pretty apathetic towards spirituality.
I don't have a materialist view of the universe like Atheists. I do believe in Spirituality. Calling me a spiritual agnostic is more suitable.
However you want to label yourself is cool, but remember, not all agnostics share your views. Be wary of labeling other people.
You can be Spiritual and still pray without invoking a religious based deity.
That's how the friend I mentioned sees it. She 'meditates' (prays) to the 'Universe.'
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Old November 21 2012, 06:49 PM   #29
milo bloom
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

sojourner wrote: View Post
I don't pray, but in high stress situations I have been praised for my sense of calm. Mainly because in my mind I take a moment to go through The Litany should I feel the need.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain

It actually works really well.

I don't find myself reciting it on a regular basis or anything, but I actually have it written on a little piece of paper in my wallet.
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Old November 21 2012, 08:54 PM   #30
teya
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Re: The Agnostic Prayer

thestrangequark wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
I am not a religious agnostic. Agnostics reject religion but not a higher power. Atheist are those who don't believe in a higher power. To call me a religious agnostic sounds ridiculous to me. I consider all religion to be man made, an attempt to understand and explain the universal force.
Some agnostics reject religion but not a higher power. Most agnostics I know are actually pretty apathetic towards spirituality.
I don't have a materialist view of the universe like Atheists. I do believe in Spirituality. Calling me a spiritual agnostic is more suitable.
However you want to label yourself is cool, but remember, not all agnostics share your views. Be wary of labeling other people
I believe you labeled him first. He's just correcting the label you gave him, not labeling others.

As for myself, I'm a Witch who believes that all gods are simply metaphors for something that will eventually be explained by science.

This will not stop me from prayer, ritual & magic however. I sincerely believe that some folks can be satisfied with perfectly logical explanations. Others of us *need* metaphor & creativity. It's simply the way we're built.
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