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Old November 19 2012, 02:42 AM   #211
bigdaddy
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Location: Space Massachusetts
Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

I think the whole thing is silly.

At the same time I LOVE it! Only in America can the first black president get people to admit to their racism. I love it!
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Old November 19 2012, 02:53 AM   #212
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Fascinating discussion, but the bad news for the secessionists is of course that no one is going anywhere.

Period. End of.

The Republicans lost an election. Deal.
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Old November 19 2012, 02:59 AM   #213
Kegg
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

The problem with the historical examples is there's usually a lot going on that drove the impetus to secession. The Irish problem goes back some seven hundred years - or, if one prefers a less ridiculously broad scope, the war that led to the creation of the Free State had something to do with the percieved failure of the more moderate Home Rule party's objectives (which for decades had been peacefully campaigning for the creation of a seperate Irish parliament) and the potential of the more radical Sinn Fein party to achieve the same ends... which all in turn can go back to Daniel O'Connell and Catholic Emancipation.

The current American secession craze is basically in response to four more years of a Democratic president. A situation that may be easily remedied if a Republican is elected after Obama leaves office - and given how narrow the last four elections have been, that's not actually impossible.

'I want to be nation because I don't get my way at while being a state', while an argument for a nation, it's just not a very compelling one. The Irish Home Rule party did not treat Home Rule as a fall back position in case they didn't get a majority in the British Parliament - it was their raison d'etre.
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Old November 19 2012, 05:00 AM   #214
RoJoHen
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

Period. End of.

The Republicans lost an election. Deal.
And what happens in 4 years (or 8 or 12...) if a Republican takes office again? Will Louisiana want to re-join the US?
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Old November 19 2012, 02:35 PM   #215
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Well, if all the Republican leaning states leave, it'll be hard for Republicans to re-take office.
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Old November 19 2012, 02:50 PM   #216
Pingfah
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, if all the Republican leaning states leave, it'll be hard for Republicans to re-take office.
Sounds like a win/win scenario then
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Old November 19 2012, 06:50 PM   #217
RoJoHen
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, if all the Republican leaning states leave, it'll be hard for Republicans to re-take office.
Maybe we should split into two countries:

The United Democracy of America

The United Republic of America
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Old November 19 2012, 09:06 PM   #218
6079SmithW
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Maybe we should split into two countries:

The United Democracy of America

The United Republic of America
You mean like left twix factory and right twix factory?

"One day, the people of America had a falling out. The United Democracy of America flows democracy on its citizens while the United Republic of America cascades democracy on its citizens."
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Old November 19 2012, 09:13 PM   #219
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Well, if all the Republican leaning states leave, it'll be hard for Republicans to re-take office.
If all the dissatisfied voters move to Alaska and we sold it back to the Russians, it'll be win-win for everyone.
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Old November 19 2012, 09:21 PM   #220
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
********************

We petition the Obama administration to:

Peacefully grant the State of Louisiana to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own new government.

*********************
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/1wrvtngl

I came across this on the White House website, and frankly don't know what to make of it. We of course have the right to petition our government, but to the best of my knowledge there is no established legal means for a state to withdrawal from the union.

Nothing will likely come of this. Still, do you think a American State, with the support of it's populace, should have the constitutional means of separating from the Untied States?

Or should the federal government have the power to prevent them, if they really want to go? Once you're in, you can never leave.

What say you?

I say let them go. Most red states -- i.e. those in the south -- are poor states. They get more money back from the federal government than they send to Washington. They'll be begging for reinstatement in less than a year.
Yep. It would be hilarious to watch them fall on their faces. Now, if states that contribute to the economy start to talk secession, like California or New York, we might be in trouble, but those states are too smart for such BS.
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Old November 19 2012, 09:34 PM   #221
RoJoHen
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

And I have to wonder how many residents from the newly-formed country would be like, "Um, no, I'm moving back to America." Would Louisiana see a mass exodus?
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Old November 19 2012, 09:42 PM   #222
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

There would probably be people who leave the state, although they would do so before the transition officially takes effect since they would otherwise be subject to immigration quotas. Although I'm not sure how easy it would be to guard the border to prevent illegal immigration from Louisiana.
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Old November 19 2012, 09:44 PM   #223
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Sorry, they're furrinErs now, like Meskins. We're building a wall around Louisiana to keep out the riffraff.

What's funny is that of all the states that might have a chance to go it on their own, Louisiana has got to be at the bottom of the list or near it, with the likes of Mississippi and Alabama. They are failed states in waiting.

I know Foreign Policy magazine did a story about this once, what realistically would happen if a state seceeded (short answer: they'd be sorry in a hurry) but somebody should do a state by state analysis on what would happen in each case, it would be interesting. I subscribe to FP so if they do a follow up, I'll post a link here.
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Old November 20 2012, 03:04 AM   #224
Hound of UIster
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Texas - Narco Drug State

Alabama/Mississippi/Louisiana - Violent Christian Fundamentalist Theocracies.

Arizona - Apartheid State

Kentucky/Indiana/W. Virginia - Subsistence Level Post-Technological Societies.
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Old November 20 2012, 03:53 AM   #225
Peacemaker
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Location: Time Vortex
Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
JiNX-01 wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
********************

We petition the Obama administration to:

Peacefully grant the State of Louisiana to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own new government.

*********************
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/1wrvtngl

I came across this on the White House website, and frankly don't know what to make of it. We of course have the right to petition our government, but to the best of my knowledge there is no established legal means for a state to withdrawal from the union.

Nothing will likely come of this. Still, do you think a American State, with the support of it's populace, should have the constitutional means of separating from the Untied States?

Or should the federal government have the power to prevent them, if they really want to go? Once you're in, you can never leave.

What say you?

I say let them go. Most red states -- i.e. those in the south -- are poor states. They get more money back from the federal government than they send to Washington. They'll be begging for reinstatement in less than a year.
Yep. It would be hilarious to watch them fall on their faces. Now, if states that contribute to the economy start to talk secession, like California or New York, we might be in trouble, but those states are too smart for such BS.
Be careful when talking about states "that contribute to the economy." NC, to take a good example, may not be the textile and tobacco empire it once was, but Charlotte is a tremendous banking center (second in the US after NYC), Research Triangle Park is located in RDU (pharmaceuticals come to mind), and there is tremendous amount of biotech going on in the Piedmont Triad. Wilmington, NC also is also a productive port city; there's also a great deal of medicine and medical research going on in Durham (Duke) and Winston-Salem (Wake Forest University Physicians - Bowman Gray School of Medicine) and one of the most rigorous boards of Nursing in the country (which has often set standards over, ahead, and above others). We are also home to the UNC System (including the UNC School of the Arts), Duke University, and Wake Forest University. Politically, we tend towards division. Republicans have only recently won the majority in the General Assembly, and they lost the gubanatorial race, in my personal opinion, because the Democrats had a fairly weak candidate in Walter Dalton - and, for the record, Walter is my Dad's first cousin, so I know a thing or two about him. He's a very folksy, nice fellow, and incredibly intelligent - but that was his undoing in the current political climate, insofar as the Republicans have been able to appeal to the lowest common denominator in NC lately by playing on the social issues.
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