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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Raise the Dawn.
Outstanding 82 70.69%
Above Average 25 21.55%
Average 3 2.59%
Below Average 3 2.59%
Poor 3 2.59%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 16 2012, 11:08 AM   #376
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I truly hope that Sela does remain dead. As said above, I found her interesting, and character that I loved reading, but she could end nowhere else. The Romulan Empire is changing under Kemmemor, and although it remains to be seen in how far those changes will have a permanent effect, people like Sela will have no place in it anymore. That Sela's life would end like it did (rather taking her own life then living in an Empire she could not support) makes sense.
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Old November 6 2012, 11:33 PM   #377
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished RTD this past weekend, albeit reading the last two chapters a bit out of order and I'm just getting started on Brinkmanship. Plagues of Night seemed rather disjointed, but worked well to establish the main plot.



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Old November 7 2012, 09:56 AM   #378
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

ISS Enterprise wrote: View Post
I'm curious as to why the story left Odo with him believing Kira might be dead. Kira just miraculously reappears Sisko's ready room to tell Ben and Kasidy they can be together without worrying any warnings from the Prophets.
I don't believe Kira was actually, physically there in Sisko's ready room - it was a Benny Russell-style vision, not objective "reality." But yes, that would seem to confirm that Kira still "exists" in some fashion or other.

But maybe Sisko just didn't stop to tell Odo that before he rushed home to Kasidy.

.
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Old November 8 2012, 09:47 AM   #379
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Perhaps he did tell Odo. But remember, Odo never put as much stock and faith in the Prophets as Kira did. I don't think he'd believe she would actually live among them know.
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Old November 17 2012, 06:56 AM   #380
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I finally got to read Dawn, and really enjoyed it. (No surprise there.) I do have a question, and I apologize if it's been discussed to death. (I did search the thread and couldn't see anything, so...)

On page 332, Sisko and Akaar are discussing the Typhon Pact wormhole:

"If you were to try to anchor a wormhole to a planet, even a massive planet, the gravity well wouldn’t hold it. You could certainly use a black hole to do so, and perhaps even some less massive stars, but if that’s where the journey through their wormhole ends, in the center of a star..."

It suddenly occurred to Sisko that such technology could conceivably be employed as a weapon, as a delivery device with which to inject-
So am I crazy, or is this a hint towards what will happen to Romulus? The idea that we may get a real reason behind the simplistic "Then the star went supernova..." routine from ST11 fills me with nerd glee.

No spoilers if this has already come up in Brinkmanship though, please. I'm starting that this week.
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Old November 17 2012, 03:10 PM   #381
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

We already got a far more detailed explanation of the STXI supenova in The Needs of the Many, although that's not exactly part of the novelverse continuity.

Personally, I'd been hoping to see a vaguely described bunch of thuggish Romulan miners hanging out at Quark's. Not gonna happen, now...
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Old November 17 2012, 03:53 PM   #382
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
We already got a far more detailed explanation of the STXI supenova in The Needs of the Many, although that's not exactly part of the novelverse continuity.
I threw that book across the room about a hundred pages in it was so painfully bad...
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Old November 17 2012, 07:23 PM   #383
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
We already got a far more detailed explanation of the STXI supenova in The Needs of the Many, although that's not exactly part of the novelverse continuity.
I wouldn't be surprised if that supernova is eventually alluded to down the road.
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Old November 17 2012, 07:48 PM   #384
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
Markonian wrote: View Post
I hope Sela isn't dead either. Somewhere within this ice cold being must be her Humanity but the books generally depicted her as incapable of a full heel-face-turn. Although Indistinguishable from Magic was the first book in a while to make her sympathetic, Imho.
That was actually one of the things that made the character of Sela so interesting to me. She walked into the Enterprise conference lounge, lays out her life story, and then tells Picard "never doubt" that she is fully Romulan, when, on his part, all he has is her word that she even is Tasha's daughter and that her outlandish story is true, that she is not a piece in some greater Romulan plot. He had no reason to doubt in the first place, but she had to say that. It was a story thread that seemed to be begging to be picked up on, but TNG never did and quietly swept Sela aside.
One of the great things Indistinguishable from Magic did do was give her character much greater depth and actually make her the subject of some sympathy.

That said, though, I can't really picture her character arc ending differently. She was stuck in that moment that she called for the guards, got her mother found out and executed, and made her choice to be nothing but Romulan. That moment defined her life, and she couldn't move past it. More, she refused to.
It's important to note that at the time of her mother's escape attempt Sela was four years old. I don't think anyone could reasonably blame her for crying out in the face of what was going on, or that anyone could reasonably hold her responsible for her mother's execution.

(Sela did, mind.)

If she had, it would have been her admitting that she was wrong about the Federation, that she had made the wrong choice to embrace her Romulan heritage and shun all things about her that was human. That was the whole point of her 'patriotism.' Her actions were made on the basis of 'if we do not balance the field, the Federation, the humans, will use their advantage and wipe us out.' If she admitted that she was wrong, that the Federation wouldn't take that step and make a preemptive strike on the Empire, then she would be admitting that there was something about the Federation that was better than the Romulans, that they were genuine in their beliefs and attitudes of peaceful coexistence, and that meant that she had made the wrong choice in getting her mother killed and staying with her father and the Romulans. That was why being sent to the Federation was her fate worse than death - it would have been coming face to fact with the fact that she was wrong.
I've said earlier on this thread that Sela was Spock's dark twin, a brilliant and capable of mixed human-Vulcanoid parentage who had major problems reconciling the cultural issues relating to the mixed parentage. Vulcan was much better equipped to handle issues of this kind than Romulus; more, Amanda Grayson wasn't a time-stranded prisoner of war who was forced to become a concubine of a Romulan general.

It's interesting to note that in her final exchange with Kamemor, Sela reacted fiercely to the mention of her father's name, but said nothing about her mother. Perhaps she was incapable of speaking about that primal trauma.

Given the set up, I can't picture her story ending differently. I found her intriguing enough that I would like to see an alternate storyline where she comes to accept her humanity, but I can't see how the story of Sela as told here could have ended differently.
Agreed. There was no way that Sela could have survived in Kamemor's new empire, not after everything that she had done in direct opposition to the praetor's statements.
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Old January 6 2013, 06:33 PM   #385
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Just finished this novel. It took me a very long time to read. I got to say after I putting it down for the last time, I was pleased with the overall outcome. But it certainly took some time to get there.

There was a period, early on in the novel where I thought about just quitting on it. I still didn't like DRG's take on Sisko at the beginning of the novel. He felt too fragile and a poor commander. Granted, he had just watched what he thought was his wife's death and perhaps that of his daughter, and he did freak out over Jennifer's death in "Emissary", but between those two events he has witnessed countless deaths in the Dominion War. I didn't like him punking out, for lack of a better term on the bridge and allowing his bland first officer to take over. I didn't like Sisko being relieved of command.

However, as the book progressed and Sisko got on the Defiant, he seemed to get his groove back some. I liked the way he dressed down Stinson. That felt like the Sisko from the TV show. And I've written at length about my distaste for Sisko's actions regarding his family, but at least here we get more exploration of the emotional impact of that on Kasidy, Ben, and Rebecca. I thought DRG did a good job for the most part in writing many of the Kasidy and Ben scenes. And how it ended with them was great. Though I wish they put the Siskos on a ship with more interesting characters in future stories.

DRG has great attention to detail, though I think it bogged down the novel at points. I also thought there were too many unnecessary characters, like the Cardassian militants, and then spending more time focusing on them. I didn't the Enterprise was necessary again though DRG was restrained in using them.

I'm not much of a fan of Bacco or the Romulan Praetor. Their scenes often are dry for me. That being said, I did enjoy the conversation they had when the Praetor came to Earth. I also liked the conversation between the Praetor and Sela. If it is the end for Sela I think it would be fitting.

I think another thing that bogged down the book for me was Elias Vaughn. The novel spent too much time on him/his condition to then just let him die. I also wasn't a fan of the Benny Russell scenes. I know it's a part of DS9 and came from one of the show's best episodes, but the scenes didn't really work for me. I wish the action had been played more straight forward. I also didn't like DRG's depiction of Tomalak. He makes him a dullard, and I didn't get that from the TV show.
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