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Old November 17 2012, 01:40 AM   #31
Chemahkuu
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

EmperorTiberius wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
EmperorTiberius wrote: View Post

With the name like Yamato, you wonder if they had a Bismarck too.
Well it was named for Battleship Yamato, so maybe they have other anime named ships too...
It wasn't named for anime, but for the biggest battleship ever built, Yamato. Being that they were part of Axis powers, it's stranger that they didn't name a ship after another famous WWII ship. May be naming it after a Nazi ship was just going too far for the producers/Starfleet? With that said, are there any Germans in the show at all?
Hmm, well we did get the Akira anyway.
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Old November 17 2012, 01:45 AM   #32
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

"soft canon"?
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Old November 17 2012, 02:48 AM   #33
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

Hard canon is what is defined as what is said by the characters. The information provided at this level is vetted by the production team.

Soft canon is what is defined as what is seen in the visuals and in the reference books which are based on the shows and are written by or are assisted by people who were intimate with the production process, ex. Michael Okuda.

"I wouldn't really consider any of this 'hard canon,' so take it all with a grain of salt. Both bios were slapped together hastily and weren't approved by the exec producers." - Mike Sussman, Enterprise Producer, TrekBBS posts, 30 April 2005. (Sussman was referring to the bios seen in a 4th season episode of Enterprise.)

So, according to this definition,
* NCC-1305-E ♦ Hard Canon, Registry of Yamato
*
NCC-71807 ♦ Soft Canon, Possible alternate registry of Yamato (seen on a graphic)
* NCC-71804 ♦ Soft Canon, Possible alternate registry of Yamato (seen on the saucer)

A better example of producer intent was that they approved a Hornet and a Akagi for the same episode. Both were carriers in WWII, and fought in the Pacific War. I think there is less stigma attached to the Japanese than the Germans, which is odd as in that the Japanese were as bad as the Germans. The Japanese were brutal to the Chinese, the Koreans, and many other Asian peoples. They were brutal to prisoners, and committed unlawful medical experiments on prisoners.
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Old November 17 2012, 04:11 AM   #34
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

As long as it's not an obvious joke (like the duck and hamster-on-wheel in the Ent-D's engineering schematic), I view the registry number as given on onscreen readouts as no less "hard canon" than anything spoken in dialogue.

As we all know, even dialogue can be obviously wrong, such as the "200 years ago" line (regarding Khan) from DS9. So just because something is actually spoken doesn't mean it's untouchable and therefore always right. Dialogue is subject to the same scrutiny as anything else.
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Old November 17 2012, 04:28 AM   #35
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Can a Galaxy class starship be built in less than 2 1/2 months?
An existing starship can be named in less than two and a half months. Example, the Enterprise A. While not actually mentioned on screen, many fans think that the Enterprise A was a existing ship that was renamed. Either a newly built ship that had it's name change, or a older connie that was rebuilt as the Enterprise was in TMP, then renamed.

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hamster-on-wheel
That's an auxiliary power unit.

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Old November 17 2012, 05:34 AM   #36
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

I never said that hard canon was 100% right. I am spelling out what the difference between hard and soft canon is.
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Old November 17 2012, 11:01 AM   #37
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

You could argue that the graphics display was simply a typing error. The ship was originaly slated to be NCC-71807, but when they decided to name her Yamato, they went with the other designation. Whoever entered it into computer somehow made a mistake.
The numbers on the hull are a bit more difficult to explain, except if you admit that they can't even be seen without freezing, zooming and what not.
To me it's NCC-1305-E. It's more plausible.
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Old November 17 2012, 11:28 AM   #38
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

throwback wrote: View Post
Hard canon is what is defined as what is said by the characters. The information provided at this level is vetted by the production team.

Soft canon is what is defined as what is seen in the visuals and in the reference books which are based on the shows and are written by or are assisted by people who were intimate with the production process, ex. Michael Okuda.

"I wouldn't really consider any of this 'hard canon,' so take it all with a grain of salt. Both bios were slapped together hastily and weren't approved by the exec producers." - Mike Sussman, Enterprise Producer, TrekBBS posts, 30 April 2005. (Sussman was referring to the bios seen in a 4th season episode of Enterprise.)
While I can understand things from the production team carrying weight while the show was still on the air and what was said was likely to be canonified if/when the subject came up in an episode or movie, that incarnation of Star Trek ended seven years ago. New technical stuff written after the point, like they Haynes manual, isn't going to have any effect on the future of Trek and so shouldn't have the same "soft canon" status. The only place prime-universe Trek continues is the novels, and the Haynes book isn't consistent with the novelverse's Enterprise-B history.
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Old November 17 2012, 04:21 PM   #39
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

The writer(s) of "Where Silence Has Lease" thought the new registry format was NCC-four numbers-letter, or at least thought that was the format for Galaxy-class ships.

The Yamato seen in "WSHL" was a fake created by Nagilum. It had to be - Worf and Riker found no one aboard, and Worf ended up frustrated by "too many bridges" (the turbo lift doors kept opening onto the bridge).

So the Yamato in "Contagion" wasn't a replacement because the one in "Lease" wasn't even real.
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Old November 17 2012, 04:30 PM   #40
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

Riker did confirm the registry at NCC-1305-E in dialogue.

It is entirely possible that the Yamato suffered some disaster/malady prior to "Contagion" where she was replaced by a "newer" aka "replacement" ship under the 71804/7 registry.
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Old November 17 2012, 04:45 PM   #41
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
Riker did confirm the registry at NCC-1305-E in dialogue.

It is entirely possible that the Yamato suffered some disaster/malady prior to "Contagion" where she was replaced by a "newer" aka "replacement" ship under the 71804/7 registry.
I thought may be the saucer section was lost, so they got one from Utopia Planita. But it doesn't make sense why they didn't go with the 1305-F though?
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Old November 17 2012, 08:05 PM   #42
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

It might be contingent on the politics of the time where the Yamato didn't warrant a new letter. Or it might've been a delay in re-registering the ship. In DS9, the Defiant's replacement was the Sao Paolo and for a while (basically an unknown time prior her delivery to Sisko) until they got the special orders to rename her.
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Old November 21 2012, 04:52 AM   #43
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

or NCC-71807 was the hull's original number and the NCC-1305-E was placed on it during commissioning. During that small span, the Yamato was overhauled and received its original number.

I have always wondered on what the Galaxy-class hull that would become the Enterprise original hull number like NCC-71825.
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Old November 21 2012, 05:12 AM   #44
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

Honestly, I never understood how Commander Riker could read the registry on the false Yamato. The angle that the ship appeared on the viewer wouldn't permit a reading of the registry.

After all these years of knowing Star Trek, I have come to expect inconsistency is the norm. I wish there weren't as many inconsistencies; I feel it doesn't help the franchise.

I am reading the latest Haynes manual, on the Klingon BoP, and enjoying it immensely. I am planning to buy the First 150 Years of Federation History.
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Old November 21 2012, 10:48 AM   #45
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Re: 3 Registries for the Yamato?

I imagine Riker read "USS Yamato NCC-1305-E Galaxy Class" from a holographic heads' up display superimposed over the ship on the viewscreen, which vanished a microsecond before the camera pointed that way.
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