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Old November 15 2012, 07:50 AM   #46
The Castellan
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
There's certainly welding...
JJ's thing he calls Trek looks more primative than Enterprise, even Archer's warp core looked more advanced.

Stopping the construction of ships in space with robots and little work pods and replacing them with a bunch of sweaty guys with arch welders seems going backwords. And the TNG warpcore seemed small, sleeker and much more compact than JJ's brewery, which he did NOTHING to hide that.....looked bad in the original V and looks bad today, also. Surprised JJ did nit opt for the welders to use acetylene torches.

As for no nuts and bolts, it's newer techniques, newer technology. In "Wounded Sky", it was mentioned the hulls were 'woven', almost like how spiders or silk worms, or even bees making their webs, silk or hives. I really like the idea of that. Also, Doctor Who, Castrovalva to be exact, showed Nissa using a device that does, as she says it, molecular adjustment. Also, from my own UFO studies (gets ready for ridicule and infantile natured captioned pictures), according to eye witnesses, including, recently, ex-military personal, the hulls of many of the ships appeared to be a single piece, no joins, seems or anything like that, as if the ship was poured or even grown as opposed to being built, and the materials feeling as if they were almost nearly there, being that light. Even changing colors in reaction of thought, since the ships, seemingly, were controlled by thought rather than an actual control panel.


Whatever way they do it on Trek, it's gotta be a lot more advanced than a bunch of hot, smelly guys in overalls with arc welders.
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Old November 15 2012, 09:20 AM   #47
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

EmperorTiberius wrote: View Post
... how do you deal with pronouncing "forecastle"?
I pronounce it phonetically. "Four-castle."

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Surprised JJ did nit opt for the welders to use acetylene torches.
Better still would have been a work crew assembling the Enterprise's hull using railroad spikes and long-handled hammers.

And they would have been singing.

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Old November 15 2012, 09:33 AM   #48
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
EmperorTiberius wrote: View Post
... how do you deal with pronouncing "forecastle"?
I pronounce it phonetically. "Four-castle."

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Surprised JJ did nit opt for the welders to use acetylene torches.
Better still would have been a work crew assembling the Enterprise's hull using railroad spikes and long-handled hammers.

And they would have been singing.

Yea, all with handle bar mustaches and .38 caliber revolvers instead of phasers. And probably replacing the anti matter chamber with a diesel engine.
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Old November 15 2012, 03:21 PM   #49
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

The Castellan wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
There's certainly welding...
JJ's thing he calls Trek looks more primative than Enterprise, even Archer's warp core looked more advanced.
The warp cores in JJ's Star Trek were very similar to the ones seen in The Motion Picture and Voyager. They're seen briefly during the ejection sequence.

Stopping the construction of ships in space with robots and little work pods and replacing them with a bunch of sweaty guys with arch welders seems going backwords. And the TNG warpcore seemed small, sleeker and much more compact than JJ's brewery, which he did NOTHING to hide that.....looked bad in the original V and looks bad today, also. Surprised JJ did nit opt for the welders to use acetylene torches.
We've seen similar welding in Enterprise, during the Enterprise's refit in "The Expanse"
As for the brewery, it looks pretty much the same as engineering on the TOS Enterprise to me, albeit on a much larger scale


Whatever way they do it on Trek, it's gotta be a lot more advanced than a bunch of hot, smelly guys in overalls with arc welders.
"The Expanse" and "Home" disagree with you.
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Old November 15 2012, 07:14 PM   #50
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

^^^ Let's see. I believe that the things on the wall in TOS's enginerring (with the klingons) are electrical conduits and control pathways, not small pipes for fluids.

The object in the middle of the floor (Klingon scene) has to do with power and dilithium crystals, not tanks of liquids.

The vertical cylinder in the TAS scene is unlikely to be filled with water.

The still from Final Frontier appears to be a Jeffries tube, similar to those we've seen in many Treks before. Except better lit, which makes sense. Did we see any Jeffries tubes in ST Eleven?

ST Eleven's set is admittedly bigger, but in no way "the same."

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Old November 15 2012, 07:24 PM   #51
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

Why assume that the tanks and pipes in the ST09 engineering deck contain liquids?. Only the pipe Scotty was in was shown to contain liquids.
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Old November 15 2012, 07:30 PM   #52
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
^^^ Let's see. I believe that the things on the wall in TOS's enginerring (with the klingons) are electrical conduits and control pathways, not small pipes for fluids.
Conjecture.
The object in the middle of the floor (Klingon scene) has to do with power and dilithium crystals, not tanks of liquids.
So, just like the larger tanks in STXI contained the warp cores and not liquids.
The vertical cylinder in the TAS scene is unlikely to be filled with water.
Conjecture. And in fact, the coolant pipe from STXI is about the only thing in the Trekverse the mysterious clear pipe from TAS resembles.
The still from Final Frontier appears to be a Jeffries tube, similar to those we've seen in many Treks before. Except better lit, which makes sense. Did we see any Jeffries tubes in ST Eleven?
I see a corridor, packed entirely with pipes, none of which have any specified functions. I wonder what an open plan version of that section might resemble...
ST Eleven's set is admittedly bigger, but in no way "the same."

Sure looks it to me.
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Old November 15 2012, 10:25 PM   #53
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

A couple of tubes in real Trek is a lot more different from AXIS chemicals that is JJ engineering. Plus TOS and TNG were a lot less cluttered than then the beer factory, which nothing was done to make it look like some advanced vessel.

JJ = A lot bigger, more sloppy, more cluttered and no a thing done to hide the fact it was a brewery....not a THING was done to conceal it. Another reason I consider JJ another overrated hack. He must have spent all the budget on CGI and lens flares, I guess.

But, getting back on track, I opt for the lack of screws and so on is for a much more advanced way of building, in the TOS-TNG Trek, anyhow, especially considering the inclusion of advanced, alien technology used to build them.
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Old November 16 2012, 12:40 AM   #54
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
not small pipes for fluids.
Conjecture.
As was yours of it being a "pipe.".

The object in the middle of the floor (Klingon scene) has to do with power and dilithium crystals, not tanks of liquids.
So, just like the larger tanks in STXI contained the warp cores and not liquids.
We never heard the term "warp core" during TOS. So the term wouldn't apply to the "gizmo" in the TOS engine room.

And how would a warp core be a "tank" anyway.

So, not just like.

The vertical cylinder in the TAS scene is unlikely to be filled with water.
Conjecture.
As was yours of it being a "pipe.".

And in fact, the coolant pipe from STXI is about the only thing in the Trekverse the mysterious clear pipe from TAS resembles.
What coolant pipe? The one Scotty was in? Kirk activated a control board to open the turbine release valve. It's that valve that dumped Scotty out of the water pipe prior to him going through the turbine. Seconds later Chekov reported to Spock " ...unauthorized access to water turbine control board."

Water.

The still from Final Frontier appears to be a Jeffries tube
I see a corridor, packed entirely with pipes, none of which have any specified functions. I wonder what an open plan version of that section might resemble...
Scotty specifically refers to it as a "tunnel." When did we see any Enterprise corridors with conduits that needed stepping over, or ducked under?

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Old November 16 2012, 11:45 AM   #55
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
We never heard the term "warp core" during TOS. So the term wouldn't apply to the "gizmo" in the TOS engine room.
So... it's okay for TOS to give us a large open area with pipes (or conduits, whatever term you prefer) and tanks and gizmos and machines all of unspecified purpose, but it's NOT okay for STXI to achieve the same result filming in a beer brewery.
And how would a warp core be a "tank" anyway.
The warp cores were inside the large tanks/vats/gizmos in STXI. You know, kinda like the tank (or gizmo or whatever) housed the Dilithium crystals in "Elaan of Troyius"
What coolant pipe? The one Scotty was in? Kirk activated a control board to open the turbine release valve. It's that valve that dumped Scotty out of the water pipe prior to him going through the turbine. Seconds later Chekov reported to Spock " ...unauthorized access to water turbine control board."

Water.
Whoops, my bad. The pipe itself was labelled "Inert Reactant" http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1435

The pipe Scotty was in was unique among all the ones in engineering, so assuming they all contain water or other liquids...
The still from Final Frontier appears to be a Jeffries tube
I see a corridor, packed entirely with pipes, none of which have any specified functions. I wonder what an open plan version of that section might resemble...
Scotty specifically refers to it as a "tunnel." When did we see any Enterprise corridors with conduits that needed stepping over, or ducked under?
Err... in STV?
In "In a Mirror, Darkly" we saw some similar pipe-filled engineering corridors/tubes/tunnels/whatever on the USS Defiant.
Splitting hairs over "corridor", "tunnel" and "tube" is beside the point. Ditto "tank", "pipe", "conduit", "unspecified gizmo"
It'd still look like STXI's engineering if the section was open-plan (especially if the diagrams on the walls are describing the layout of the pipes!) - or, at the very least, a brewery-like mishmash of pipes (or pipe-like conduit things) and tanks (or machinery of unspecified purpose) is as good an extrapolation as any.
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Old November 16 2012, 04:57 PM   #56
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post

As for the brewery, it looks pretty much the same as engineering on the TOS Enterprise to me, albeit on a much larger scale

Pardon me, but didn't we just see this pic of comparing the engine rooms with the labeled parts in another topic? I can't find that right now.
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Old November 16 2012, 05:09 PM   #57
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

Yeah, I've taken to re-posting it whenever the long-running engineering/brewery argument comes up. The people debating it here and now might not all be the same who were doing it there and then etc.
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Old November 16 2012, 07:39 PM   #58
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Yeah, I've taken to re-posting it whenever the long-running engineering/brewery argument comes up. The people debating it here and now might not all be the same who were doing it there and then etc.
Can you remember where else you posted it? Specifically the conversation wherein someone said they could say the same thing about their basement, or their parents basement. I've lost track of that topic.
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Old November 16 2012, 10:05 PM   #59
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Can you remember where else you posted it? Specifically the conversation wherein someone said they could say the same thing about their basement, or their parents basement. I've lost track of that topic.
I think maybe it was this thread?: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=190675
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Old November 17 2012, 03:11 AM   #60
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Re: Why are there no Nuts / Bolts / Screws in Star Trek?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
We never heard the term "warp core" during TOS. So the term wouldn't apply to the "gizmo" in the TOS engine room.
So... it's okay for TOS to give us a large open area with pipes (or conduits, whatever term you prefer) and tanks and gizmos and machines all of unspecified purpose, but it's NOT okay for STXI to achieve the same result filming in a beer brewery.
And how would a warp core be a "tank" anyway.
The warp cores were inside the large tanks/vats/gizmos in STXI. You know, kinda like the tank (or gizmo or whatever) housed the Dilithium crystals in "Elaan of Troyius"

Whoops, my bad. The pipe itself was labelled "Inert Reactant" http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1435

The pipe Scotty was in was unique among all the ones in engineering, so assuming they all contain water or other liquids...
I see a corridor, packed entirely with pipes, none of which have any specified functions. I wonder what an open plan version of that section might resemble...
Scotty specifically refers to it as a "tunnel." When did we see any Enterprise corridors with conduits that needed stepping over, or ducked under?
Err... in STV?
In "In a Mirror, Darkly" we saw some similar pipe-filled engineering corridors/tubes/tunnels/whatever on the USS Defiant.
Splitting hairs over "corridor", "tunnel" and "tube" is beside the point. Ditto "tank", "pipe", "conduit", "unspecified gizmo"
It'd still look like STXI's engineering if the section was open-plan (especially if the diagrams on the walls are describing the layout of the pipes!) - or, at the very least, a brewery-like mishmash of pipes (or pipe-like conduit things) and tanks (or machinery of unspecified purpose) is as good an extrapolation as any.
It should also be noted that colored pipes were added to the main corridors of the Enterprise A for ST:VI (The same was true of the Excelsior). Nicholas Meyer did so specifically to give the ship more of a submarine feel and to differentiate them from the more hotel asthetics of TNG.
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