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Old November 14 2012, 07:13 PM   #136
Squiggy
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

R. Star wrote: View Post
IndyJones wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
If the condescending attitudes displayed here towards states with a minority that want to secede is prevalent, no wonder there are people who want it. I wonder if anyone ever stopped to consider that for a moment.

But that's the common wisdom these days. Insult first, rationalize later, rarely justify.
Yeah, we should be more rational about this. Like the people who love their country so much they want to secede because their guy lost *one* election.
Absolutely. Anyone who disagrees with the majority deserves it! Let's take it one step further and shoot them eh? Then we don't have to worry about it anymore! We can have drones do it! Awesome!
No, anyone who disagrees with the majority is by definition the minority and doesn't get everything they want.

In terms of an election between two people, the minority gets nothing they want.
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Old November 14 2012, 07:14 PM   #137
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

BillJ wrote: View Post
Atomic Dog wrote: View Post
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Old November 14 2012, 07:52 PM   #138
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

These petitions make no sense.

Don't these people realize how much more expensive it'll become if they are an independent nation? Do they think they'll be able to maintain roads or build a military on that 2 or 3% of state tax they pay now? How much more expensive things will be when they have to export them from a foreign nation that sits right next door?

It's laughable that they think they're better off going it alone because they have to pay taxes and a black man is president.

I think it would be fun to watch them circle the drain and then beg to be let back in.
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Old November 14 2012, 08:01 PM   #139
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
It's sad that the petition still only has 1 vote.
Are you a Klingon sympathizer or Klingon sleeper agent?
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Old November 14 2012, 08:06 PM   #140
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

The man behind the Alabama petition is the salt of the earth ain't he.

Derrick Belcher, a 45 year-old topless carwash owner, is behind the Alabama petition, according to AL.com. He supported Ron Paul in 2012 and told the site he’s serious about creating a new union of states that did not vote for Obama’s reelection. Belcher said that a nation of red states could do away with entitlement programs — and the people who rely on them.

“The people who want those handouts, it’ll force them to move to a different state,” he told AL.com.
Wow, what a braintrust that is - a real bevy down there in Alabama, don't y'all think...
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Old November 14 2012, 09:14 PM   #141
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Roger Wilco wrote: View Post
It's sad that the petition still only has 1 vote.

Then go vote for it. The Klingon Empire needs your support! Plus, it doesn't get made public until it gets 150 votes so no one can see it on the site yet.
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Old November 14 2012, 09:21 PM   #142
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Peacemaker wrote: View Post
The man behind the Alabama petition is the salt of the earth ain't he.

Derrick Belcher, a 45 year-old topless carwash owner, is behind the Alabama petition, according to AL.com. He supported Ron Paul in 2012 and told the site he’s serious about creating a new union of states that did not vote for Obama’s reelection. Belcher said that a nation of red states could do away with entitlement programs — and the people who rely on them.

“The people who want those handouts, it’ll force them to move to a different state,” he told AL.com.
Wow, what a braintrust that is - a real bevy down there in Alabama, don't y'all think...
What makes him think the U.S. is going to take millions of refugees from another nation?

Alabama as a nation? Can anyone say Chechnya part II?
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Old November 15 2012, 12:07 AM   #143
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

What the hell is wrong with you people? Why haven't you signed the Klingon petition yet? Everyone Star Trek fan with his/her salt should be signing that! OK, maybe just DS9 fans... but still... let's get this done!
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Old November 15 2012, 12:28 AM   #144
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

There's a petition going to let Austin withdraw from Texas and remain part of the USA.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...tates/TDD212hQ
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Old November 15 2012, 12:30 AM   #145
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Maestro wrote: View Post
What the hell is wrong with you people? Why haven't you signed the Klingon petition yet? Everyone Star Trek fan with his/her salt should be signing that! OK, maybe just DS9 fans... but still... let's get this done!
I have signed it.

What are the rest of you waiting for?
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Old November 15 2012, 12:37 AM   #146
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

I can’t think of any realistic scenario in which secession would be legitimate. It strikes at the very heart of democracy. “Let’s agree to settle disputes democratically, but only if my side wins the vote. If we lose the vote, we will repudiate this agreement and refuse to participate in the democratic process by which we agreed to settle our differences.” That’s not democracy. When you agree to participate in a democracy, you agree to abide by the outcome of the democratic process no matter whether the majority votes with you or against you.
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Old November 15 2012, 12:51 AM   #147
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

From the "no shit" department: Governor not signing Tennessee's secession petition -- Auto play video on the page.

Gov. Bill Haslam said Tuesday he'd heard about Tennessee's petition. He's not a fan.

"I don't think that's a valid option for Tennessee," he said. "I don't think we'll be seceding."

...

Secession wasn't good for Tennessee after voters approved it 2-to-1 in 1861, and it probably wouldn't work out too well now, either, historians said.

"It was hell," said Jim Hoobler, senior curator of art and architecture for the state. "I mean, there was a massive invasion, occupation and defeat."
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Old November 15 2012, 01:02 AM   #148
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

So if 99.9% of a states population voted by some democratic means say a referrendum to secede that would strike at the heart of democracy?

What these petitions mount to are sour grapes that the side you don't support won. Well guess what that happens sometimes in a democarcy.

Which means the next question is why did the side I support lose?

One of the best places for a political party to occupt is the centre groud. I.e they are centre-right, centre or centre-left on the poltical axis. The benefits of this position is that you you should in theory have broad appeal. To far to the right or the left means that you narrow your appeal to voters. Many political parties around the world have politicans within them that are more to the right or left than the majority of the party. Though what can happen from time to time the moderates in the party become outnumbered by the people who lean more to the right or left, if they start to dominate policy it can have an adverse affect.
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Old November 15 2012, 09:30 AM   #149
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

Maestro wrote: View Post
What the hell is wrong with you people? Why haven't you signed the Klingon petition yet? Everyone Star Trek fan with his/her salt should be signing that! OK, maybe just DS9 fans... but still... let's get this done!

Thanks for the support, but unfortunately the petition has been removed by a site moderator. Apparently it violated the ToS because " The petition was outside the scope of We the People." Can't really argue with that I guess.
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Old November 15 2012, 10:40 AM   #150
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Re: Louisiana petitions Obama for secession.

BillJ wrote: View Post
How much more expensive things will be when they have to export them from a foreign nation that sits right next door?


Who exactly do you think will be importing from whom?

Might be interesting BillJ, instead of States succeeding, if individual countries could have that option.

Looks like the folks in Blue America would be importing most of their food from a "foreign nation that sits right next door."

BillJ wrote: View Post
Alabama as a nation? Can anyone say Chechnya part II?
Can anyone say Republic of Singapore, part two?

captrek wrote: View Post
“Let’s agree to settle disputes democratically, but only if my side wins the vote. If we lose the vote, we will repudiate this agreement and refuse to participate in the democratic process by which we agreed to settle our differences.”
Al Gore, 2000 election?


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