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Old November 14 2012, 11:50 AM   #16
Timo
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Well, there is always the possibility that Spock exits on Deck 7, the destination manually specified by Kirk (note his hand on the handle), while Kirk continues in the turbolift to his verbally specified destination of Deck 5. After all, when we next meet Kirk, he is in his quarters... This interpretation would also have Kirk escorting Spock basically all the way to Sickbay before backtracking to his own destination - a logical and kind action for the Captain, even if the dazed Spock then wanders about a bit after leaving the turbolift, confusing the issue.

The less likely alternative is that Kirk is taking Spock to his quarters on Deck 5, allowing him the dignity of combing his hair and washing that oddly enticing musky odor off him before he is to report to Sickbay. Naturally, Spock in his confused state wanders the two decks down on foot, forgoing the more logical paths. But where, then, is Kirk himself headed, when he ultimately ends up at his own quarters but does not step out on Deck 5? (Perhaps he resides on Deck 12 that day?)

Regarding the changing positioning of lifts close to Engineering, the concept of multiple roughly similar engine rooms rears its multiple roughly similar heads again...

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Old November 14 2012, 12:46 PM   #17
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Timo wrote: View Post
"Regarding the changing positioning of lifts close to Engineering, the concept of multiple roughly similar engine rooms rears its multiple roughly similar heads again..."
Sorry for the confusion. I just wanted to provide a sense of orientation in the real life studio sets, not the in-universe location of "engine control room" (Season One) versus "engineering section" (Season Two).

But again, is there any dialogue in TOS where the location of sickbay is explicitly stated to be on deck 7? (According to The Making of Star Trek and the producers' intentions it was deck 7, FJ adopted the concept etc. and this is why we all believe sickbay to be on deck 7).

Bob
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Old November 14 2012, 02:33 PM   #18
Mytran
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Re: TOS Door Colors

I think Amok Time is the only episode where Sickbay is identified as being on Deck 5, Timo-esque arguments not withstanding

However, in Elaan of Troyius Kirk identifies Sickbay as being the "best protected part of the ship", suggesting that its deep in the middle of the saucer. Whether that is Deck 7 or Deck 5 depends on which particular cutaway you use...

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
In "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" Robotkirk arrives near Kirk's quarters (he moved - again?!?) in a turbolift right next to the aforementioned one where there's also the Season One Jefferies Tube (different angle than in Season Two and Three). The yellow door of this little JT corridor serves no function at all in this particular scene (if the main corridor wall panel is in place - like in "The Enemy Within" - I believe this might be a yellow door to the crew's restrooms).
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...adeofhd500.jpg
That corridor is quite a mess! In season 1, the Jeffries Tube resided in a little room accessed through a yellow door on the short straight corridor. What the director basically did here is remove several sections of corridor in order to compose his shot: Spock can now be seen working at the tube as Robokirk arrives in the lift and passes him by without a word, first arousing Spock's suspicions...

It's a good scene of course, but it does raise several oddities. Firstly (as Robert Comsol observed) the change in corridors mean that Kirk has moved quarters yet again! OK, so it's not the last time it ever happens, but it is the 3rd time in 9 episodes and only the 6th appearance!

Also, Kirk has an open Jefferies Tube right outside his quarters - of course, there's usually mechancic doodads sticking out of the walls in TOS, but this seems to put the Captain even deeper into the guts of the vessel.

Finally, there's that little yellow door. Formally the entrance to the J.T. room, now it is a door that leads from the corridor - into the corridor. OK, the camera pans quickly across this weird structural assembly but it is there.

Last edited by Mytran; November 14 2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old November 14 2012, 07:33 PM   #19
TIN_MAN
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Re: TOS Door Colors

This might be a good opportunity to ask a (hopefully relevant) question that's been bugging me for a long time.

It seems to me there is a scene somewhere in TOS where it’s established that the action is taking place on deck six, and then Kirk gets into a turbo-lift and says "sickbay" and then we see the light panel move slowly once, indicating that the lift is going up, before the doors open again?

I'm I remembering this correctly? Can anyone shed light on what episode anything like this might have happened in? If this scenario actually played out this way, then it would mean that the director’s intent in this instance was to imply that sickbay is on deck seven, probably because he thought that's where it was supposed to be?

Thanks in advance for any help offered.
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Old November 14 2012, 07:33 PM   #20
TIN_MAN
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Oops, double post. Sorry.
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Old November 14 2012, 08:23 PM   #21
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Door Colors

TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
"It seems to me there is a scene somewhere in TOS where it’s established that the action is taking place on deck six, and then Kirk gets into a turbo-lift and says "sickbay" and then we see the light panel move slowly once, indicating that the lift is going up, before the doors open again?"
Now that you mention it, I seem to remember the same. Was that "Day of the Dove" where they take Johnson to Sickbay after he had been mortally wounded.

Bob
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Old November 14 2012, 08:32 PM   #22
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Mytran wrote: View Post
"I think Amok Time is the only episode where Sickbay is identified as being on Deck 5, Timo-esque arguments not withstanding "
Hmm...that doesn't answer the question if there is one that identifies Sickbay being on Deck 7.

Mytran wrote: View Post
"...the change in corridors mean that Kirk has moved quarters yet again! OK, so it's not the last time it ever happens, but it is the 3rd time in 9 episodes and only the 6th appearance!"
Sorry, you got me confused. I go by stardate and production order and Mudd's Women and The Enemy Within (Kirk's quarters have windows) seem to place Kirk's provisional quarters on Deck 12.
Later comes What Are Little Girls Made Of? where we have that odd "in-wall" turbo lift. By that time Kirk has possibly moved to quarters on Deck 5 but these are not yet his regular ones from Season Two and Three (without the adjacent bathroom - maybe that's the reason he tried to keep the provisional quarters as long as possible).

Bob
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Old November 14 2012, 09:10 PM   #23
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
TIN_MAN wrote: View Post
"It seems to me there is a scene somewhere in TOS where it’s established that the action is taking place on deck six, and then Kirk gets into a turbo-lift and says "sickbay" and then we see the light panel move slowly once, indicating that the lift is going up, before the doors open again?"
Now that you mention it, I seem to remember the same. Was that "Day of the Dove" where they take Johnson to Sickbay after he had been mortally wounded.

Bob
When they take him to sickbay after escaping/fighting their way out of the room the shot in the turbolift is aimed down where the travel direction is not in view. You can't really tell which way they went - unless you guys are thinking of another scene?
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Old November 15 2012, 12:15 AM   #24
Mytran
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Hmm...that doesn't answer the question if there is one that identifies Sickbay being on Deck 7.
Then no - Sickbay is never identified as being on Deck 7, sorry!

Mytran wrote: View Post
"...the change in corridors mean that Kirk has moved quarters yet again! OK, so it's not the last time it ever happens, but it is the 3rd time in 9 episodes and only the 6th appearance!"
Sorry, you got me confused...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I was trying to type fast as I was in work. I also run by Production Number, since it is the only real way to track the on-set changes. OK, here goes:

WNMHGB does not feature Kirk's cabin (although an early draft did! It was a cost saving measure that relocated the chess game to Briefing Lounge. I wonder what Kirk's cabin would have looked like if it was shown?)

Corbomite, Mudd, Enemy could all be the same cabin that Kirk uses, which we can infer from Mudd is on Deck 12.

Mantrap, N-Time do not feature Kirk's cabin at all.

Charlie-X, B.O.T. show the cabin but only the interiors, adding nothing new to the location.

Little Girls features the new cabin's location that is adjacent to the Jefferies Tube.
OK, so I was a bit excessive in saying this was Kirk's third cabin. But I was missing my vital notebook!

The next real appearance is in Conscience, which really could be anywhere (although conveniently near a "pressure vent disposal" shute).

In Season 2 Amok Time features the cabin from the inside, but it's not until Mirror Mirror that we get verbal confirmation of its location - "Deck 5" according to Evilchekov. And this must be a new location, as it features a new corridor alongside the bedroom door (a feature of many season 2 sets). This may or may not be the same cabin that we see in the beginning of Babel.



I could go on, but I think I've strayed enough already!!!
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Old November 15 2012, 01:06 AM   #25
blssdwlf
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Good research, Mytran!
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Old November 15 2012, 12:19 PM   #26
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Door Colors

blssdwlf wrote: View Post
"When they take him to sickbay after escaping/fighting their way out of the room the shot in the turbolift is aimed down where the travel direction is not in view. You can't really tell which way they went - unless you guys are thinking of another scene?"
Your observation is impeccable but in that scene from "Day of the Dove" the turbo lift ride from sickbay to the bridge is so short (must be a warp express turbo lift ) that compared to "Amok Time" (bridge to deck 5) it becomes increasingly difficult to rationalize that they first went down to sickbay and then Kirk went up to the bridge alone.

Another thing is that the Klingons control "deck 6 and starboard deck 7" (sickbay on the port side exclusively?) while the 38 remaining Enterprise crew members "control all decks above". This episode is confusing. Later on the Klingons have taken "engineering section" but it doesn't seem to be on deck 6 as Mara is sent to number 6 deck to cripple "life-support" (IRL wouldn't she say something like "at the other side of this deck?")


Bob

@Mytran

I do enjoy your straying unless Albertese feels that we should return to the original theme of this thread.
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Old November 15 2012, 12:34 PM   #27
Timo
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Differences in turbolift travel times could all be chalked up to congestion in the shafts, and the possible use of alternate routes to deal with such congestion... There could (and probably should) be at least two routes to choose from basically everywhere in the ship, perhaps even including the connecting neck.

What do we make of the "Turbolift 7" signs?

- Simply the ID number of this particular turbolift stop, moved from stop to stop as the show progresses?
- The number of a specific turboshaft, displayed at all stops along the shaft, and helping tell the user where this lift might go and where it might not?
- The number of a turbolift "line", meaning lifts from this location go along the standard route known as "7" unless otherwise instructed?
- The maximum capacity of lifts stopping here, in number of passengers?
- Not a sign at all, but rather an aesthetically pleasing display showing how many lift cabs are currently serving this stop, or how long till the next scheduled one?
- Sign establishing that this turbolift stop is on Deck 7, disregarding all contrary hints?

Timo Saloniemi
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Old November 15 2012, 12:50 PM   #28
Robert Comsol
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Timo wrote: View Post
"What do we make of the "Turbolift 7" signs?"
Difficult to answer, maybe we should first try to determine how many different turbo lift numbers did exist in TOS (right now I can't think of more than 2, 3 and 7).

My pet theory (for the moment) is that it tells the passenger that turbo lift 7 could make stops at 7 different locations or deck levels.
"Mudd's Women" walk counter-clockwise to turbo lift 7, exit on deck 12 and continue to walk counter-clockwise to Kirk's quarters (a few counter-clockwise steps forward and they arrive at another turbo lift 7 (used by Kirk and Spock in "The Enemy Within").
If that were the same turboshaft # 7 their movement would have most likely been different.

Bob
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Old November 15 2012, 01:59 PM   #29
Mytran
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Re: TOS Door Colors

When do we ever see signs for anything other than "Turbolift 7"? I haven't made an exhaustive structinization of TOS, but it always seemed that "7" was the only number used? I suppose it could pass for a "2" in a fuzzy shot.

My thoughts on the "Turbolift 7" debacle? It's a model number. These are the latest turbolifts in Starfleet, fully voice controlled and the fastest yet! Look out Turbolift 6, here comes TURBOLIFT 7!!!!
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Old November 15 2012, 03:56 PM   #30
throwback
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Re: TOS Door Colors

Here is an image from the episode "The Man Trap" where we have a sign for Turbo Lift 2.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...ntraphd335.jpg

In this image, we see the sign for the Astro-Medical Ward. Look to the right of the security guards. According to dialog, they are on deck five, section three.

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...ntraphd654.jpg

And, according to dialog and the signs in the corridors seen in "Day of the Dove", Officer's Quarters are located on deck six.
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