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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old November 7 2012, 10:08 PM   #16
Fastwalker
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
Maddox
Maddox may be a jerk. But he became a supporter for Data. In "The Measure of a Man", Maddox may seem stupid defending his argument. Yet, later he was later referred as an expert on fixing Data in the episode "Contagion". Also, if you count non-canon content, Maddox is not as dumb as you think. He later becomes Chairman of Robotics at the Daystrom Institute of Technology. Who together with Barclay attempts to create a new type of android by combining holographics and positronic brain (aka holotronic brain). Finally, Maddox successfully argued in front of the Federation President and Judiciary Council proving B-4 was a sentient being and should not be disassembled. So, YES, Maddox can help Data with his support and resources. You can read these events at Memory Alpha and Beta. Just search for "Bruce Maddox".

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
Admiral Haftel
How does that negate the possibility of Haftel helping Data if requested? As for yanking Lal's body, where at the end of “The Offspring” episode does Haftel demanded to take Lal's body AFTER he helped Data? You may wanna rewatch that episode – I did... twice. Haftel's last words were, “It just wasn't meant to be.”

I agree Haftel would jump to assist in developing another android with or without Data. But, I bet Haftel would assist Data if the request was made. And what better ally to have than an Admiral with guilt or sympathy..

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
Reginald Barclay
See my above response to Bruce Maddox. Barclay did team up with Maddox to develop a holotronic brain. Based on that, I'm sure Barclay can help Data.

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
Geordi LaForge
I don't understand what you're saying about Geordi. Are you saying Geordi could never duplicate a positronic brain? I doubt it. Give it time... Like in 2385, Geordi takes a “long-term leave of absence” from StarFleet to work with the Soong Foundation to study B-4. (See Geordi's entry in Memory Beta.)

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
Again, it comes back down to the fundamental problem why Lal didn't work. Her hardware was faulty. Data found a new method at some robotics seminar that he thought might work. He tried it, it didn't. So unless a new method presents itself, why is he going to try again with a method that's proven not to work? None of the people you mentioned really are going to get around her hardware issues.
Well, the world, or universe, never stops spinning. Progress continues and who knows if someone, like Data or any one mentioned previously, comes up with a solution. Like a holotronic brain.

Too bad the original Data is dead. But, I like to believe he was resurrected as said in the “Star Trek: Countdown” comic book – prequel story that leads up to the Star Trek XI reboot story (aka, nuTrek).
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Old November 7 2012, 11:10 PM   #17
Mojochi
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Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

Zombie Redshirt wrote: View Post
At the beginning of the episode he thought he had away around the technobabble issues that prevented people from making more Soong type androids. He tried the method, it didn't work. So until he finds another method around it, why would he try again knowing it won't work?
^This. The method he used was to use core dumps from his own matrix. I got the impression he was trying to use himself as a source for duplicating himself, a method no one had ever tried, & worth the try

Fastwalker wrote: View Post
Data failed with Lal v1.0 when her positronic brain couldnt handle the stress that StarFleet may take her away from her father..
That's not exactly why she crashed. At least as the plot depicts it, she had already begun to exhibit aberrations... in using contractions, & then in feeling emotions. As she was an offshoot of Data's programming, that shouldn't have happened. The interference of Starfleet just added an influence which exacerbated the failure of an unstable matrix, which is why nobody in the episode ends up putting blame on the admiral. He didn't cause it. He just made it worse, faster.

So Data didn't succeed. It was an unexplained failure of an experimental technique, & presumably he was never able to reconcile the technique such that the same problem was no longer a threat

It's not just science but also healthcare. The 1st rule of healthcare is "Do No Harm" & to deliberately create a sentient life form which has every potential of not surviving is more harmful than it is good. Without solving the aberrations which led to the cascade failure issue, it's immoral to attempt it again. It's similar to the reason Picard doesn't want to make more holograms like Moriarty

It was back to the drawing board for Data, because ultimately there were problems with his technique. However, I do believe he should have tried again though, but not with this technique, unless it was rectified

The problem is, at some point in his Starfleet career, he should have decided to spearhead his own cybernetics endeavor, enlisting people like Bruce Maddox to work alongside him, or finding a way to get command over that branch of Starfleet sciences. It's evident he is as much an expert in it than anyone else in Starfleet. They should be working together

It's clear Data was not going to allow himself to become a guinea pig. So, Starfleet should have finally just trusted him to work on the project himself. I think there's trust issues there though, because Data is the one best asset in knowing what Soong did. There might always be the threat that someone might try to force him to be experimented on

So the result is he has to research it unilaterally
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Old November 10 2012, 01:37 AM   #18
Bones_McCoy21
Commander
 
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Location: McCoy's Quarters
Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

Honestly I think it was because he couldn't take Lal's "death" even if he can't feel emotions I don't think he could bring himself to created another version of his daughter whom he "loved".
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Old November 14 2012, 03:34 PM   #19
Captain McBain
Captain
 
Location: Being congratulated on the bridge of the Enterprise after making captain
Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

I never understood why Data couldn't succeed at making an android. In "A Measure of a Man," there's a certain problem in building a positronic net that Data relays to Commander Maddox while in the observation lounge. My question is why Data didn't copy his own design exactly---as a working android, his design obviously allows for a functioning android---so why not use this precise blueprint for Lal?
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Old November 15 2012, 05:53 AM   #20
Mojochi
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Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I never understood why Data couldn't succeed at making an android. In "A Measure of a Man," there's a certain problem in building a positronic net that Data relays to Commander Maddox while in the observation lounge. My question is why Data didn't copy his own design exactly---as a working android, his design obviously allows for a functioning android---so why not use this precise blueprint for Lal?
That's exactly what he did, & apparently achieved a certain amount more success than Maddox ever did

The way Maddox seemed to believe was that the only true way to identify all the specific properties involved in Data's positronic matrix was to dissemble it & essentially study it in a non-functioning state

& since Lal faltered, perhaps there's some truth to that notion, even if it's not worthwhile to do so, & jeopardize Data's life

What boggles my mind more is that Soong would have to know he wouldn't live forever, & with the success of Data, he should have bestowed upon him every single bit of design parameters on the properly functioning Soong type android

All the research should be IN Data's memory banks!
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Old November 19 2012, 06:14 PM   #21
newtontomato539
Commander
 
Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

He could have saved her memories and her emotions. Bring her back!
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Old November 20 2012, 08:07 AM   #22
Captain McBain
Captain
 
Location: Being congratulated on the bridge of the Enterprise after making captain
Re: Why didnt Data create Lal v2.0?

Mojochi wrote: View Post
Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I never understood why Data couldn't succeed at making an android. In "A Measure of a Man," there's a certain problem in building a positronic net that Data relays to Commander Maddox while in the observation lounge. My question is why Data didn't copy his own design exactly---as a working android, his design obviously allows for a functioning android---so why not use this precise blueprint for Lal?
That's exactly what he did,
If that's 'exactly what he did,' then why didn't Lal function, as Data obviously was able to?
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