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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

View Poll Results: Wort Season?
TOS-1 1 2.08%
TOS-2 2 4.17%
TOS-3 1 2.08%
TNG-1 14 29.17%
TNG-2 0 0%
TNG-3 0 0%
TNG-4 0 0%
TNG-5 0 0%
TNG-6 0 0%
TNG-7 1 2.08%
DS9-1 1 2.08%
DS9-2 0 0%
DS9-3 0 0%
DS9-4 0 0%
DS9-5 0 0%
DS9-6 0 0%
DS9-7 3 6.25%
VOY-1 1 2.08%
VOY-2 2 4.17%
VOY-3 1 2.08%
VOY-4 0 0%
VOY-5 0 0%
VOY-6 0 0%
VOY-7 3 6.25%
ENT-1 8 16.67%
ENT-2 8 16.67%
ENT-3 2 4.17%
ENT-4 0 0%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 14 2012, 03:58 AM   #46
The Wormhole
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Re: Worst Season?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
DS9 features terrorists and doesn't paint them all as villains. I imagine this likely infuriates Stan Smith which is why he can't stand DS9.

Actually, the irony is is that when he made that comment, it's about surrogate births. "I've never heard of this and I've seen every episode of Star Trek. Wait, is this Deep Space Nine?..." DS9 of course, is the only Trek series to feature a surrogate birth, so whoever wrote the episode clearly doesn't hate DS9 and is very familiar with it.
Thank you. Surrogate births must have seemed unnatural to him, but it is sci-fi. One thing that DS9 does well it to show that terms such as "villain" and "terrorist" are relative. I could see how that could be infuriating to someone that believes that they can only describe the one or few groups he's defined as such.
Something else I've thought of since writing that post, DS9 had a tendency to depict intelligence agencies as being almost criminal (Tal Shiar, Obsidian Order, Section 31). As an upstanding CIA agent, I can see this would grate on Stan.

Hmm, maybe we should start another thread speculating on why Stan would hate DS9 before derailing this one further?
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Old November 14 2012, 04:37 AM   #47
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Re: Worst Season?

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
DS9 features terrorists and doesn't paint them all as villains. I imagine this likely infuriates Stan Smith which is why he can't stand DS9.

Actually, the irony is is that when he made that comment, it's about surrogate births. "I've never heard of this and I've seen every episode of Star Trek. Wait, is this Deep Space Nine?..." DS9 of course, is the only Trek series to feature a surrogate birth, so whoever wrote the episode clearly doesn't hate DS9 and is very familiar with it.
Thank you. Surrogate births must have seemed unnatural to him, but it is sci-fi. One thing that DS9 does well it to show that terms such as "villain" and "terrorist" are relative. I could see how that could be infuriating to someone that believes that they can only describe the one or few groups he's defined as such.
Something else I've thought of since writing that post, DS9 had a tendency to depict intelligence agencies as being almost criminal (Tal Shiar, Obsidian Order, Section 31). As an upstanding CIA agent, I can see this would grate on Stan.

Hmm, maybe we should start another thread speculating on why Stan would hate DS9 before derailing this one further?
I haven't watched DS9 in a while, but didn't Section 31 turn out to not really be a legitimate intelligence agency, but rather a rouge one? The Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar, well, I wouldn't really fault the agencies for what they were considering that Cardassians and Romulans aren't always depicted as the best people no matter which way you slice it. There were divisions, though, where morals and ideals got challenged, IIRC.

And let's not forget that no one, by the end of the series, walked away with entirely clean hands, intelligence agency or not. I think that's a real depiction of what happens in war times, wouldn't you say? I mean, think about some of what's happened with American intelligence, not to mention other places (which I'd assume have their issues too), in the last 10 years or so.

Back to DS9, I don't think depicting intelligence agencies doing what they think they need to do during a war and the moral and legal questions that come or should come into play makes an entire series garbage. I would hope Stan, or someone like who/what Stan is supposed to represent, could see that. A more realistic example right now would be Homeland... Like DS9, I don't think that series is garbage either. What do you think as a CIA Agent? Perhaps a thread on this would be nice. I don't know.
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Old November 14 2012, 01:57 PM   #48
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Re: Worst Season?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Seen it all. Own all four seasons of Enterprise and five seasons of Voyager on DVD.
Bill, will you be picking up the ENT Blu-ray's next year? Or is that a Trek too far?!
Seasons three and four for sure. One and two will be determined by what else is out there that I want to buy at that point in time.

Dream wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
five seasons of Voyager on DVD
Five seasons? Let me guess... those are the Seven of Nine years right?
Seasons one thru five, not a huge Seven of Nine fan even though I'm normally a fan of large breasts.
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Old November 14 2012, 02:02 PM   #49
BillJ
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Re: Worst Season?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Back to DS9, I don't think depicting intelligence agencies doing what they think they need to do during a war and the moral and legal questions that come or should come into play makes an entire series garbage. I would hope Stan, or someone like who/what Stan is supposed to represent, could see that. A more realistic example right now would be Homeland... Like DS9, I don't think that series is garbage either. What do you think as a CIA Agent? Perhaps a thread on this would be nice. I don't know.
Not sure if you live in the States or not, but...

American Dad! is a very satirical (animated) left-wing take on a right-wing CIA company man trying to survive in an evolving world. His daughter is a hippy, son is a nerd, wife is pretty but mentally "empty" and he's hiding an alien in his attic. And the fish has the mind of a Nazi.

Patrick Stewart plays Avery Bullock, Stan's boss at the CIA.



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Last edited by BillJ; November 14 2012 at 02:31 PM.
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Old November 14 2012, 02:25 PM   #50
The Wormhole
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Re: Worst Season?

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I haven't watched DS9 in a while, but didn't Section 31 turn out to not really be a legitimate intelligence agency, but rather a rouge one? The Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar, well, I wouldn't really fault the agencies for what they were considering that Cardassians and Romulans aren't always depicted as the best people no matter which way you slice it. There were divisions, though, where morals and ideals got challenged, IIRC.

And let's not forget that no one, by the end of the series, walked away with entirely clean hands, intelligence agency or not. I think that's a real depiction of what happens in war times, wouldn't you say? I mean, think about some of what's happened with American intelligence, not to mention other places (which I'd assume have their issues too), in the last 10 years or so.
All good points. However, given the kind of guy Stan is, he tends to view everything in black and white and feels that his ideas of right and wrong are the only legitimate viewpoints on the matter.

What do you think as a CIA Agent?
I'm not in the CIA, I'm not even American. The sentence in my previous post when I said "As an upstanding CIA agent, I can see this would grate on Stan." I meant that since Stan is supposed to be an upstanding CIA agent, I can see how depicting every intelligence agency as criminal would grate on him. If you've watched American Dad, you'd see such characterization is 100% spot on of who Stan Smith is.
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Old November 14 2012, 02:44 PM   #51
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Re: Worst Season?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Back to DS9, I don't think depicting intelligence agencies doing what they think they need to do during a war and the moral and legal questions that come or should come into play makes an entire series garbage. I would hope Stan, or someone like who/what Stan is supposed to represent, could see that. A more realistic example right now would be Homeland... Like DS9, I don't think that series is garbage either. What do you think as a CIA Agent? Perhaps a thread on this would be nice. I don't know.
Not sure if you live in the States or not, but...

American Dad! is a very satirical (animated) left-wing take on a right-wing CIA company man trying to survive in an evolving world. His daughter is a hippy, son is a nerd, wife is pretty but mentally "empty" and he's hiding an alien in his attic. And the fish has the mind of a Nazi.

Patrick Stewart plays Avery Bullock, Stan's boss at the CIA.
Oh, I know what the series is, and I've seen a few episodes. My point was that even Stan (or what he's supposed to represent) should have had a better understanding of the series if he actually watched it. Wormhole answered my question by stating that he hadn't seen any of it, and the part that he did see was about surrogates. That's why I said I think he's got a lot in common with people who miscategorize something when they haven't even seen enough of it to know. That's pretty much what he did.

And thanks for the vids.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
I haven't watched DS9 in a while, but didn't Section 31 turn out to not really be a legitimate intelligence agency, but rather a rouge one? The Obsidian Order and the Tal Shiar, well, I wouldn't really fault the agencies for what they were considering that Cardassians and Romulans aren't always depicted as the best people no matter which way you slice it. There were divisions, though, where morals and ideals got challenged, IIRC.

And let's not forget that no one, by the end of the series, walked away with entirely clean hands, intelligence agency or not. I think that's a real depiction of what happens in war times, wouldn't you say? I mean, think about some of what's happened with American intelligence, not to mention other places (which I'd assume have their issues too), in the last 10 years or so.
All good points. However, given the kind of guy Stan is, he tends to view everything in black and white and feels that his ideas of right and wrong are the only legitimate viewpoints on the matter.
True.

What do you think as a CIA Agent?
I'm not in the CIA, I'm not even American. The sentence in my previous post when I said "As an upstanding CIA agent, I can see this would grate on Stan." I meant that since Stan is supposed to be an upstanding CIA agent, I can see how depicting every intelligence agency as criminal would grate on him. If you've watched American Dad, you'd see such characterization is 100% spot on of who Stan Smith is.
Oh, okay. That makes sense, although he does a better job at depicting intelligence agents as deranged criminals all on his own, lol.
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