I need to run this by some people...

[J. Allen]

Just be yourself, Kommander! Sounds cliche, but it usually works. You have terrific personality traits. If you approach her, just lay it all out. No matter what, it's worth the effort. Good luck!

[teacake]

I have now read Gaith's dating guide.

Nice effort but way too much bowling.

[Kommander]

Gaith wrote:

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I've no doubt that many dating guides are messed up. I don't think mine is a-hole friendly, nor does it exaggerate the ease of the matter, but that's a matter of details. If you'd like to discuss any specific aspects of the guide, I'd be happy to do so, but no hard feelings if you don't. Heck, as I wrote in it, I don't claim to be any kind of expert myself, just a frood with a few rudimentary tips.

Yeah, I didn't get that yours is a manipulative pick up guide, and you do state it's based on your own experiences and don't misrepresent it as "a proven method that has worked for trillions of men," so it's probably not as messed up as most. I may pick it apart later. And yeah, I'm not an expert either. I'd even go as far as to say that anyone that thinks they're an expert is either lying or delusional. Even once I have my Ph. D. I still won't ever claim to be an expert.

RAMA wrote:

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Ok this isn't really a dating guide, it's just straight reality for most cases:

Don't play games, you can be subtle but don't be coy and manipulate. Don't do the waiting to call thing; don't worry you're looking desperate (whether you are or not); there's nothing wrong with complimenting someone if you mean it (guys seem to thing they'll give a girl an attitude if they say something positive). Don't wait to ask someone out, it's easier just to ask.

Be yourself...up to a point. Don't pretend to be someone you're not (don't lie about your real day to day life) HOWEVER, there's nothing wrong with acting more confident than you might normally be, or simply put more energy into how you project yourself. This can actually be good practice for later on when you might actually become that.

Be direct, but not overbearing. I've found that simply saying what your wants or needs are are a lot more useful than waiting.

These are pretty general but also sensible, if someone can't handle that, then they arent for you. I would have trouble with anyone who wasnt honest and reciprocated. I've never had a girl turn me down for a date (or other things) unless she was already taken (again something to ask about early).

RAMA

Well, yeah.

On the "just ask" thing: This applies most to just meeting people randomly. If I get talking to a random stranger and she seems like someone I'd like, I'll ask her out or for her phone number or something. Because, if I don't, I won't have another chance. I'm in class with Creative Writing Girl twice a week, so I don't feel that sense of immediacy, so I do things like not exchange phone numbers and don't know her name for a month. Don't know her name? I'll just ask her on Tuesday. I forgot to ask for her number? Oh well, I'll get it from her on Thursday. I don't worry about it, and then when I'm actually talking to her I forget to do it.

When the "now or never" pressure isn't there, I usually don't even think about dating until I get talking to someone, decide I like her, and it seems like she likes me. While I started talking to her back in September, and I realized I was starting to be romantically interested in her about a month ago, I didn't catch on that she seemed interested in me as well until that day when she was concerned about me seeming upset and I gave her bracelets I made. Which, that would have been a good time to ask her out, but I was caught completely off-guard when she showed concern for me and was too distracted to do so.

For the sake of continued rambling, I have now moved on from being anxious about past dating experiences and how they suck. Now I'm anxious about, if everything is as it seems to be, and it's all taken into account, how this can still go horribly wrong. Here's what I came up with:

She's romantically interested in me, but has a boyfriend even though she probably would have mentioned it by now if she did. She's mono, so she's questioning why she's interested in me while with this boyfriend, and begins to wonder is maybe she doesn't really love him. However, she's made a commitment and has decided to not question it. Then I ask her out. She wants to date me, but feels she would be betraying her boyfriend. She thinks if maybe spending time with me would be okay, but she's not sure she can trust herself. She assumes that me being polyamorous means I don't respect the boundaries of other people's relationships and she can't trust me either. So, she starts avoiding me because it's the easiest way to handle the situation. I do not participate in cheating; if someone is in an exclusive relationship, they are off-limits to Little Kommander. She doesn't believe me when i tell her this, and she thinks it's weird that I call my penis Little Kommander.

If that's the worst I can come up with at this point, there probably is not going to be a problem here. Also, if I told her I've named my penis Little Kommander, she'd probably think it's funny.

J. Allen wrote:

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Just be yourself, Kommander! Sounds cliche, but it usually works. You have terrific personality traits. If you approach her, just lay it all out. No matter what, it's worth the effort. Good luck!

Yes, but do I truly know myself? Am I familiar with the works of Xiang Yu?

[teacake]

So have you named your penis after your user name or your user name after your penis?

[Kommander]

Who and what Kommander is is difficult to explain. In some ways it's a stage name. It is also similar to how Bruce Wayne is Batman, but while Batman is a part of who Bruce Wayne is, he is only fully Batman when he is wearing the costume. There is no Kommander costume (if there was though, it would be awesome). Kommander is distinct from my real identity, and yet at the same time an inseparable part of who I am. Kommander is a fictional character that I play at all times. Kommander is that which I aspire to be but cannot attain, yet, at the same time, the embodiment of all that I am and nothing more.

According to the engraving on the Zippo lighter I have here, it's "The Kommander" and not simply "Kommander." Since I started watching Dr. Who a few months ago, I suspect I may be a time lord. That would certainly explain a lot.

[teacake]

Kommander wrote:

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Since I started watching Dr. Who a few months ago, I suspect I may be a time lord. That would certainly explain a lot.

Now that's a pickup line that would act as an excellent filter. The more enthusiastic they are the further you should run.

[Gaith]

teacake wrote:

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I have now read Gaith's dating guide.

Nice effort but way too much bowling.

Two mentions is "way too much"?

I suppose I could have substituted one of those for mini golfing... but I wrote the Guide with city dating in mind, and was referencing a bowling experience of my own...

[teacake]

NO BALLS. Just no balls going into holes ever.

[SonOfMogh]

Man...... I haven't read all the other responses but you're massively overthinking this. I really wouldn't do this elaborate book thing, the bracelets were cool but there's a line between nice and desperate.

Just tell her you always have fun when she's around and see if she wants to go for a coffee, if she's even remotely interested in you she'll snap your hand off, if not then problem solved and no more stress.

From your first post she's definitely into you, and coffee's hardly a declaration of love, she says no it's not like you look bad to any degree. Take opportunities while they're in front of you.

[teacake]

I'm thinking he is enjoying the overthinking.

[Gaith]

teacake wrote:

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NO BALLS. Just no balls going into holes ever.

Jeez, not even pool? Where's there's alcohol and nighttime and such?

What would you prefer, a meeting of a knitting circle?

[teacake]

Actually I would prefer the thing you list as a nono.. coffee.

[Kommander]

SonOfMogh wrote:

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Man...... I haven't read all the other responses but you're massively overthinking this. I really wouldn't do this elaborate book thing, the bracelets were cool but there's a line between nice and desperate.

How is this even remotely coming off at desperate? Over thinking, definitely. Somewhat more excessive than is necessary, probably. But desperate? If I had asked her out already, was turned down, and I did stuff like this, then that would be desperate. Or, you know, begging and saying things like "Please just give me a chance!" which has the added bonus of being selfish and manipulative in addition to being desperate.

I keep forgetting that I haven't been very active over the past year or two, and there are probably people around that aren't familiar with me. Being over-the-top isn't just something I do when I'm trying to impress a girl I like. I'm always over-the-top and intense. If I'm not like this when interacting with women, that would be violating the "be yourself" rule. Those that have said "just ask her out and be simple about it" are, in effect, recommending that I put on an act. If this kind of thing is out of the ordinary for someone, acting over-the-top when interested in a girl is probably a mistake. That's not the case with me though, so it's cool when I do it.

Also, the thing with the bracelets was a good idea, no one is questioning that. (If they are, they're wrong.) She was talking about how she was supposed to have gone to the Renaissance Faire with this other girl in the class who dropped it early on and how it didn't happen. (It was over at that point, otherwise I would have suggested her and I go together.) So I thought, people that like Renaissance Faires generally like chainmail as well, I make chainmail, so I made her some bracelets. It was very thoughtful and an awesome thing for me to do. Of course, had I hesitated and made a thread about it, I'm sure some people would be telling me it was a creepy thing to do and I should just ask her out for coffee.

teacake wrote:

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I'm thinking he is enjoying the overthinking.

It's more that I'm not capable of not over thinking things and I've gotten used to it. It's a pain in the ass sometimes, but it works for me, and is generally better than not thinking about something enough.

Gaith wrote:

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Jeez, not even pool?

Those things on pool tables, while they look like holes, are called pockets, so it's okay.

teacake wrote:

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Actually I would prefer the thing you list as a nono.. coffee.

I've changed my mind, I need to read this guide now. If there's suggestions about where to go and what to do activity-wise, that could be useful and is a good idea. I also need to know what the reasoning behind coffee being a bad idea is. If it's a first date, I'd say that coffee isn't only a good idea, but the only acceptable one:

First dates usually involve a lot of talking, and coffee places are good for conversation.

Coffee shops have a very relaxed atmosphere. People are usually a bit nervous on first dates, so this helps.

There are no time restraints. If two people catch on early that they have no interest in each other, they can leave after ten minutes. If a very engaging conversation starts one can sit there for hours. Also, it's pretty easy to leave and go do something else if the mood strikes.

One for the ass holes: Even the most expensive coffee shop is still pretty cheap compared to other things. If the other person sits there an texts people the whole time rather than talking to you, you're only out $10.

A lot of people are concerned about date rape. As comedians liked to point out in the '90s, there's a Starbucks every few hundred feet. It's easy to meet up at one and then leave separately.

Most of this is true of bars as well, but drinking on a first date can be risky for a first date. Alcohol helps people relax, but it changes behavior in other ways, especially with judgment abilities. Say the date ends with sex. The next morning things might be fine, but it can also be awkward, and might even be rape.

The only downside I can really see to the coffee date is that lots of people do it, so it's boring and uncreative. Which, given everything else I've said, one would think I'd be against it. However, the benefits outweigh this one tiny downside. Also, boring and uncreative are two things I'm not, so I can easily work around it.

[teacake]

Ideally the coffee would be in take away cup (I forget what you call this in america, my automatic translation is on the fritz) and you would be walking down a pier or along a beach. That gives you the activity Gaith so highly values in his Guide.

However not everyone lives near a beach and there is no alternative that is acceptable. Woods, bush, gardens.. all static. At the beach you have the constant movement and sussuration of the waves. This is a white noise and visual that lulls you into a sensate state of relaxation. It will take the edge off any anxiety or awkward gaps in the conversation. It is always perfectly acceptable to stare out at the horizon and toss crap into the sea, to cover awkwardness. If you have one hand permanently occupied with a paper cup of coffee so much the better.

And we don't go to the beach every day so this is something special, your date will enjoy being there even if she doesn't particularly enjoy you. It's a +5 environment.

Weather and geography conspire against most people though.

[RJDiogenes]

teacake wrote:

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NO BALLS. Just no balls going into holes ever.

What about trains going through tunnels?