Skyfall - Grading & Discussion

[Dimesdan]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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Er, that would be Asian. That's hardly an obscure term.

Yet Asia is massive. It encompasses the middle east, the Indian sub continent and the Orient or more simply everything between the Bering Sea and the Ural Mountains.

So are you proposing that the Orient Express should be renamed as not to offend a small, maybe even fictional minority, or say in a supermarket where there are foods from multiple areas of Asia, it shouldn't have "Indian," "Thai" and "Oriental" but just Asia? That just seems stupid.

[Brikar99]

I thought jumping genres for the climax of the film was a ballsy move. Turning your spy thriller into a Western was cool as hell. And my god, all those shots after the house is burning look friggin' gorgeous.

I'm not sure if I liked it more than "Casino Royale" but I think it's a better film - if that makes sense.

[Bob The Skutter]

Dimesdan wrote:

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Yet Asia is massive. It encompasses the middle east, the Indian sub continent and the Orient or more simply everything between the Bering Sea and the Ural Mountains.

So are you proposing that the Orient Express should be renamed as not to offend a small, maybe even fictional minority, or say in a supermarket where there are foods from multiple areas of Asia, it shouldn't have "Indian," "Thai" and "Oriental" but just Asia? That just seems stupid.

I believe this is a North American versus British thing again. We're more likely to use Oriental to refer to East Asian and Asian to refer to the subcontinent.

[Dimesdan]

Bob the Skutter wrote:

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I believe this is a North American versus British thing again. We're more likely to use Oriental to refer to East Asian and Asian to refer to the subcontinent.

Or the ignorance of just how large Asia is - which may very well be one and the same thing. To lump everything in it under "Asia" is just silly.

In my opinion, Bones wasn't wrong in calling Shanghai an Oriental city as, well, China is what I would describe as the Orient.

[Bob The Skutter]

Dimesdan wrote:

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Or the ignorance of just how large Asia is - which may very well be one and the same thing. To lump everything in it under "Asia" is just silly.

In my opinion, Bones wasn't wrong in calling Shanghai an Oriental city as, well, China is what I would describe as the Orient.

It's true, but I think it is along the same lines as "Paki". Here it's considered a racial slur, there it's just what someone is. We would say Pakistani. Oriental has become a bit of a world like "coloured" over there, I believe.

[Ghost Bones]

Far Eastern? Will that do? Asian's clearly a useless term for its span and the range of very differing people (Russians, arabs, Indians and Chinese all count).

[DarthPipes]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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That would be Asian. That's hardly an obscure term.

I thought that M's role recalls quite heavily The World Is Not Enough.

Did the female villain in The World Is Not Enough also want revenge on M?

[CaptainCanada]

Dimesdan wrote:

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Or the ignorance of just how large Asia is - which may very well be one and the same thing. To lump everything in it under "Asia" is just silly.

In my opinion, Bones wasn't wrong in calling Shanghai an Oriental city as, well, China is what I would describe as the Orient.

I'm not the one who came up with this. This is simply the current state of the language. In North America, "Orient" and "Oriental" are held to be an outdated and somewhat offensive term (not a slur, per se; it's more akin to "Negro"). Some US states have outright banned its use in documents, not that it is used much or at all anyway. This has largely been because of the preferences of Asians themselves. That's really all that needs to be said on the matter.

[Captaindemotion]

^I would tend to agree that the word 'Oriental' tends to be a bit offensive when used in respect to a person or people ('Those inscrutable Orientals!' or the like) but I wouldn't have thought it so when used in relation to places.

Someone suggested the Oriental Express - anecdotally, I've just had a look in my phone book and found 4 Chinese Restaurants with Orient or Oriental in their name in my local area.

[Ghost Bones]

So, that Skyfall eh? What a load of rubbish.

[Captaindemotion]

Ghost Bones wrote:

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So, that Skyfall eh? What a load of rubbish.

What's a Skyfall?

[Ghost Bones]

What a dreadful name for a film as well. It sounds James Bond-ish, but it's a real back-of-the-drawer-in-case-we-can't-think-of-another-one title. You'd just about accept it for a video game, but ripping off pissing Chicken Licken for Bond film title? I feel embarrassed having to say it out loud.

[doubleohfive]

I guess we'll have to disagree there. I thought it was a fine title, in context with the film itself and in the context of the Fleming-ish sound and feel of Bondian titles.

I mean, did you even see the film?

[Captaindemotion]

It was certainly a better title than Quantum of Solace

[Dimesdan]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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I'm not the one who came up with this. This is simply the current state of the language. In North America, "Orient" and "Oriental" are held to be an outdated and somewhat offensive term (not a slur, per se; it's more akin to "Negro"). Some US states have outright banned its use in documents, not that it is used much or at all anyway. This has largely been because of the preferences of Asians themselves. That's really all that needs to be said on the matter.

Well I for one have never known any people from that region getting upset by it being referred to as the Orient, nor referring to say, a city like Shanghai as Oriental. I even decided to ask one of my co-workers who hails from Hong Kong if it was deemed inappropriate and she said, no it wasn't.

So anyway, can you post a link or two actually referring to what your asserting please.

But it does sound a bit like what Bob described last night.

doubleohfive wrote:

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I mean, did you even see the film?

I'm guessing he did given the whole discussion over the right or wrong use of Oriental when referring to that region of the globe came out of Bones review of the film.