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Old November 11 2012, 07:18 PM   #31
Timo
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

The "law enforcement gangs" we saw featured both genders. Quite possibly, the same would be true of the rape gangs, regardless of the fact that the males would predominantly handle the penetration aspect of the violence. Domination through violence would appear to be a preferred lifestyle on Turkana IV, and it would certainly be in the interests of the females to be active participants on the winning side.

In an anarchy-driven community, lack of willing partners would hardly be a feature in the statistics, dynamics or politics of rape. And the rape gangs would only go by that name because of the most notorious part of what they were doing, even though the bulk of their operations would involve beating up people, thrashing and/or stealing their property, leaving messages from the boss, and making offers that could not be refused.

It was stated in Unification that Vulcan possessed "Vulcan Defense Ships," suggesting they had their own military organization separate from Starfleet.
Or at least there were ships stationed at Vulcan ready to offer defense, either permanently, or then during the events.
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Old November 11 2012, 08:33 PM   #32
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

Timo wrote: View Post
it's one possible logical outcome in The Final Reflection
Does dissolving the federation really count as sucession?
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Old November 11 2012, 09:23 PM   #33
T'Girl
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
it's one possible logical outcome in The Final Reflection
Does dissolving the federation really count as sucession?
I thought The Final Reflection had the possibility of Earth withdrawing from the Federation, not Vulcan.

And by the 2230's, would either Earth or Vulcan (or both) withdrawing result in the Federation dissolving?

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Old November 11 2012, 09:34 PM   #34
Timo
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

It sounded as if this Terra First, sorry, Back-to-Earth Movement indeed set out to have Earth separate from the UFP and cease interstellar affairs. But the real threat to the UFP was from the big vote where fear of Klingons was driving several UFP members into bailing out and negotiating separate peace with the Empire; Grandisson's movement was just one facet of the UFP-wide crisis, and the one we got to examine up close for dramatic purposes (and shameless name-dropping/cameo action).

Dissolving of the entire UFP member by member (or in one big flash, if Starfleet duplicity were made public) would have sent Vulcan spinning in the void, too; the scenario of Earth and Earth only withdrawing was never a realistic one in that storyline.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old November 11 2012, 10:46 PM   #35
Sci
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

T'Girl wrote: View Post
And by the 2230's, would either Earth or Vulcan (or both) withdrawing result in the Federation dissolving?
Hmm. Hard to say. By the 2230s, the Federation is still young -- only about seventy years old. The loss of one of its key founding Members may well have led to the eventual demise of the Federation -- or maybe not.

I think it's clear that by the 24th Century, though, the secession of United Earth would not lead inevitably to the Federation's dissolution.

In fact, in the Myriad Universes novel The Chimes at Midnight, set in an alternate timeline where Spock died at the age of 8, the Klingon Empire ended up conquering Earth in a surprise attack in 2286, and the Federation government re-located to Vulcan. The Federation President and Council ended up using the Vulcan High Command Headquarters in the City of ShiKahr, seen in ENT's "The Forge"/"Awakening"/"Kir'Shara" trilogy, as their new seat of government.
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Old November 12 2012, 06:23 AM   #36
WinstonSmith
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

Sci wrote: View Post
I think the best way to answer this question is to ask what would happen if the government of one of the German länder, provinces of Canada, or states of Australia, were to be taken over by a dictator like that. They're all federations, after all. Would the Federal Republic of Germany, Canada, or Commonwealth of Australia tolerate such a state of affairs?
Quite clearly you've never heard of Sir Joh
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Old November 12 2012, 02:26 PM   #37
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post
it's one possible logical outcome in The Final Reflection
Does dissolving the federation really count as sucession?
I thought The Final Reflection had the possibility of Earth withdrawing from the Federation, not Vulcan.
I'm pretty sure the major point of the conference was whether to dissolve the federation or not.

And by the 2230's, would either Earth or Vulcan (or both) withdrawing result in the Federation dissolving?
Yeah, but it wasn't just Earth or Vulcan looking at leaving it was the members deciding whether there should still be a federation or not.
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Old November 12 2012, 03:09 PM   #38
Timo
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Re: Federation planets and internal revolution

...Although everybody was speaking about voting for or against dissolution, the actual vote would probably not actually have been about that issue. Rather, the various members would either be bailing out and signing separate peaces with the Klingon Empire, or then sticking together; if sufficiently many of them bailed out, then the UFP would dissolve in practice, even though nobody really wanted that.

Timo Saloniemi
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