AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

[Turtletrekker]

TOR.com has a summary of the Joss Whedon commentary here.

[JarodRussell]

Turtletrekker wrote:

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TOR.com has a summary of the Joss Whedon commentary here.

The jet that the Hulk tore up and crashed was the same one from the film True Lies.

Arnold has something to say about that.

[Samurai8472]

I listened to this part of the commentary

All script weaknesses are duly noted: Whedon himself wasn’t a fan of how the Chitauri basically “had their strings cut” once the mothership was blown up, but it had to be done to prevent the battle sequence from continuing.

Joss also didn't want the Avengers to do clean up for 17 hours

[Gaith]

"[Whedon] loved that Ruffalo actually looked like someone on edge, dangerous, rather than an adorable nerdy scientist."

I'm a big Ruffalo fan - heck, I've even acted alongside him (see below) - but, uh, that's a big "no" on the ol "dangerous-looking" front. Norton looked "on the edge". Ruffalo looked as though he was planning on busting out some Beach Boys at the next SHIELD karaoke night.

Pictured: The Hulk and myself in Just Like Heaven.

[Captrek]

I finally got around to seeing this. As is usually the case when I go into a film with this much hype, I came away a little disappointed. The only thing I want to comment on right now is the lame ending.

Earth is under attack by a technologically superior force coming through a portal from another world. A small group of fighters, far more skilled and better equipped than their fellow humans but still overmatched, combat the invaders. Finally, they send a single nuclear warhead into the portal from this side, and it destroys the invaders’ home world and immediately neutralizes the invading force.

Does that sound like Joss Whedon’s work? It’s actually L. Ron Hubbard’s. The idiotic climax of The Avengers is ripped straight from the pages of Battlefield Earth.

IMO, that has to lower the film by at least a full grade. Even if it were otherwise flawless, a film that so shamelessly pilfers from dreck like Battlefield Earth could rate no better than a B+.

[RoJoHen]

For what it's worth, Joss Whedon has stated that he didn't want the Chitauri force to be immediately neutralized after the nuke explodes. That was something imposed on him by the studio.

[Sindatur]

I haven't seen either Iron Man movie, Thor, nor the Norton Hulk Movie. I've only seen Captain America (And about half of the Ang Lee Hulk which was terrible). I got The Avengers and tried to watch it, but, it started out so very obvious that you need to see at least the Iron Man's (and probably Thor as well) to appeciate the film, so, it'll be awhile before I get to see it

[RoJoHen]

I'd say that Thor is probably more important than the Iron Man movies, actually.

[Captain Craig]

^^^
I would tend to agree with that. Given Loki's motives for his attack on Earth are rooted in the events of the solo Thor film. That discussion he has with Thor on the mountain during the film essentially confirms it. There may be another mention or two but that one is a crucial tie back.

[Sindatur]

RoJoHen wrote:

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I'd say that Thor is probably more important than the Iron Man movies, actually.

I'm not a comic reader, so, I'm not even up to snuff on SHIELD, I only know of their existence at all from the boards

I do have Thor and the two Iron Mans now, so, it's only a matter of having the time to watch that much (I'll probably tackle the Series when I finish Andromeda (Currently on Season 5, Episode 12, so, not too much left to go)

[RoJoHen]

Sindatur wrote:

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I'm not a comic reader, so, I'm not even up to snuff on SHIELD, I only know of their existence at all from the boards

I do have Thor and the two Iron Mans now, so, it's only a matter of having the time to watch that much (I'll probably tackle the Series when I finish Andromeda (Currently on Season 5, Episode 12, so, not too much left to go)

I'm not a comic reader either. Just in terms of the films, though, the events of Thor play a much more important role in understanding The Avengers, especially regarding Loki as a villain.

[Set Harth]

I haven't seen Thor or Captain America but I thought the Avengers film was understandable on its own. The Thor references in the film seemed mostly self-explanatory.

[TemporalFlux]

Well, one way to explain the convenient ending is to take a page from the comics. The great power source they called "the tesseract" was a version of the cosmic cube from the comics stories. The cube was not just an energy source; it was essentially a wish fulfillment device. If the person holding the cube realized what he had, he would have the power to remake all reality as he saw fit; he would be a true god.

How does that matter to this discussion? Well, the nuke that Tony rode through the rift was "phase 2" and infused with energy from the cube. The use of the energy to that point was simple; you put it in a gun and it fires with the force the user expects; you put it in a nuke and get the force you expect; etc. But Tony was probably wishing for something more as he hugged that nuke; he was wishing to save his friends and loved ones. The cube energy granted his wish.

Anyway, that's how I would explain it. It's consistent with the comics and what we saw with the cube in the movies (Red Skull wanted to be one with the universe and got his wish). Even the ending of Avengers fits the mold; Thor wished to go home and so he did. I imagine it is one of Odin's great secrets; he told everyone that the cube was just a great power source hoping that was all anyone would ever expect it to be.

On one last note, it's interesting to think of Captain America's shield here. The shield is made of material that absorbs energy, and it spent years absorbing cube energy from the Hydra weapons. Is Cap so formidable with the shield because the residual energy is granting his wish to be formidable with it? It would be a self reinforcing wish; each time the shield does what he wants, it leads him to expect it (and thus wish it so). Throws a new twist on the old stand-by of Cap's shield always coming back to him every time he throws it.

[LaxScrutiny]

^ That's an interesting take, however my interpretation is a bit simpler. The Chitauri died because they were using life support for an alien enviroment (Earth) that was centrally powered. When they lost connection with the base they suffocated.

I'm not sure there has ever been a full explanation for how Vibranium actually works, but it's implied by the name; it vibrates. Like noise cancellation, the Vibranium returns incoming force, cancelling it. I've never gotten the impression it stores any form of energy.

[Chemahkuu]

The Chitarui ground forces all had electonic implants around their head and neck, the various Avengers pulled them out killing the trooper instantly in each case, when the mothership is nuked the implants on the rest spark and fry, either a serious interupt problem or a suicide protocol built in.

It seems much like the Borg, they troops used for combat are disposable, in the event of capture or failure they selfdestruct in some form.