I need to run this by some people...

[SmoothieX]

She and I are still friends. It was the smoothest, least drama divorce you can imagine. We met for lunch a few days later before going our separate ways. Neither of us wanted our final memory of the other being in divorce court.

So I at least made the best of it. We met in college and 10 years later we just had different priorities and opinions.

[sojourner]

teacock wrote:

---

Women don't actually talk like that.

Well, then I guess it's a good thing he made sure the character didn't talk like that.

[Emher]

Definitely not the directing it to her. Otherwise go forward as planned. And ask her out. Which I know is a really easy thing to say, Oh lords do I. But it's really the most efficient tactic.

[Kommander]

SmoothieX wrote:

---

I got divorced 6 months ago, so this counts me out of giving advice too.

SmoothieX wrote:

---

She and I are still friends. It was the smoothest, least drama divorce you can imagine. We met for lunch a few days later before going our separate ways. Neither of us wanted our final memory of the other being in divorce court.

So I at least made the best of it. We met in college and 10 years later we just had different priorities and opinions.

And yet, you see this as a failure? People change, and relationships change right along with them. You acknowledged this, decided to change your relationship, a parted on good terms. It may not have been an ideal solution, but it's far from failure. When people cling to relationships that aren't working even though they're miserable, and start blaming their partner for not knowing how to relationship properly rather than acknowledging that growing apart just happens sometimes and no one is to blame, that's failure.

Well, if she picked up on the subtext of the story, she didn't say anything. I have a habit of being either blatant or too subtle, and the story definitely is not an overt "I'm talking about us" kind of thing. She did like it though.

I almost asked her out. She has another class after the creative writing one, and I walked with her like I've been doing lately. Despite not getting the point of the story, I'm pretty sure she knew I was about to ask her out or ask for her phone number or something. She pretty much told me "I have stuff to do, like, right now, and I'm distracted. Let's pick this up again next week." So, nothing for now.

To clear some things up: as I said before, I want to be a sex therapist. Because of this, I'm a psych major focusing on human sexuality, and it's something I started studying long before I started going to school. People act a certain way and do certain things when they're attracted to someone, and act differently when they are not. I've become very good at spotting these behaviours. She's displayed all of them. Because I'm aware of what these behaviours are, I tend to suppress them unless I catch myself doing it and consciously prevent the suppression. Even when people don't know to look for these behaviours, they still pick up on them. It's possible she doesn't realise that I'm attracted to her as well.

However, being attracted to someone is different than wanting to pursue a relationship or date. The only way to know that for sure is to ask.

There is another complication. I'm polyamorous. Her and I discussed this briefly, and she didn't run away screaming as happens sometimes. I'm not currently involved with anyone else so it makes little difference for the time being, but if her and I do start dating, we're going to have to have several long discussions about it which I am not looking forward to, but really shouldn't be much of a problem. I've dated monos before, and if I'm not immediately shut out the conversations typically go smoothly.

The complication is that I tend to look at dating differently than most people. The way I prefer to do things is to just spend time with someone and let the type of relationship sort itself out. With typical dating, one is essentially auditioning someone for marriage. If I meet someone and a marriage-type relationship works for us, then great, but it doesn't have to bee that way. There is plenty of space between friendship and romance, casual sex and deep, loving bonds. The type of relationship I want depends on the person I'm dating and what works best for us.

Mono thinking seems more compartmentalized. Friendship is one thing, romantic relationships are another. Sex is either casual or part of a loving relationship. There's no middle ground. When I date, it's nice if romance develops, but I don't have the expectation that it will develop, and I don't want to push things in that direction unless it feels natural.

I've noticed many monos say they take the same approach to dating, that they prefer it to be casual with no pressure. Still, the expectation of romance is still there, there's still a social script to follow. When I date someone, or express an interest in dating someone, I don't want to follow a script; doing so interferes with communication. If I want something, I want to be able to ask without the other person assuming I'm going to be upset if I'm told no. If I'm concerned about something, I'd like to address it without the other person shutting down because it's not in the script. I want to focus on what we want and how things are rather than what we're supposed to want and how things are supposed to be. Not a lot of people are capable of communicating on this level, or even want to try. I struggle with it, but I'm learning.

[RJDiogenes]

Kommander, I think the story is a fantastic idea. Changing the title was probably a good call, but I think this is the perfect way to make a move on a fellow writer.

[Kommander]

RJDemonicus wrote:

---

Kommander, I think the story is a fantastic idea. Changing the title was probably a good call, but I think this is the perfect way to make a move on a fellow writer.

That didn't occur to me. As a writer, this sort of thing is more likely to appeal to her than it necessarily would to others. Why was I hesitant about this again? Oh yeah, the being a chicken shit thing.

It would have been nice if she got the point. Maybe it'll occur to her later. It'll probably be funnier that way.

I'm actually kind of having fun with the ambiguity. Maybe she is too. I’m sure one of us will say something eventually.

Although, given what I said in my last post, I am not going to ask her out. I hate dating, and I'm not going to do it any more. However, I am going to ask her about spending time together outside of class. Her and I talk a lot, but there's really not enough time for actual conversation. She also already expressed an interest in doing this. Once I can actually sit and talk with her, things will develop if they're going to. If not, I probably made a new friend.

[sojourner]

"Spend some time together outside of class", sounds like a date to me.

You "hate dating" is odd. Dating is just doing things together. So do you plan to never share a movie with her? Get a bite to eat at the same time and place?

[Kommander]

sojourner wrote:

---

"Spend some time together outside of class", sounds like a date to me.

You "hate dating" is odd. Dating is just doing things together. So do you plan to never share a movie with her? Get a bite to eat at the same time and place?

If that's the case, why is it that if a mono girl has a boyfriend, she feels that going on a date with me is inappropriate, but spending time together is okay? Or why when I ask girls to meet me somewhere, sometimes they say something like "you mean, like a date?" Dating is courtship, essentially. There's expectation, a loose protocol to follow. I'd rather not do that.

So yeah, its still dating, I'm just calling it something different and pretending it's not dating. It's purely a marketing move in hopes of avoiding bullshit.

I don't want to default to the social script. The script that says dating should be a certain way, and that relationships should progress at a certain rate. By asking girls on "dates," I'm starting off following the script and then immediately deviating from it, which can be confusing. I'm better off throwing away the script from the start. When I "ask girls out," and follow the script, I've never gotten to a second date. The girls I've been romantically involved with I never really "dated." We'd spend time together for some other reason: school, mutual friends, that kind of thing. The mutual interest became apparent, they dropped hints, I ignored the hints, they got frustrated that I didn't make a move, and then made one themselves. Instead of "dating," I need to just learn to not ignore hints and make a move when I'm in that situation.

[teacake]

Are you sending out memos to these girls you want to spend non-dating time with detailing the script and how you will not be following it?

[Kommander]

^ It was more of a press release.

[Kestra]

I understand the desire to deviate from some social scripts when dating. It was one of the things that drew me to the man that I married, when he told me we didn't have to do things by anyone else's rules. I'd get really confused by someone dating me and not calling it dating, though. Romantic/sexual relationships are already so confusing and prone to miscommunication.

[teacake]

For a minute there I thought this was the orange juice thread. That was confusing.

[Kommander]

The main reason I've decided to do things this way is because if I think of it as spending time together rather than dating, I'll calm the fuck down and can focus on being charming and humorous rather than being all anxious. I generally don't philosophize like this to girls I'm "spending time" with unless they're interested in such things or I'm drinking. However, I have to do it in general if I want to be good at being Dr. Kommander, Awesome Sex Therapist!!!

[Gaith]

Good lord, man, just ask her out!

Also read The Hitchhiker's Guide to Dating 21st-Century Women, written by yours truly. (link)

[sojourner]

So, it's the semantics that get in your way.