Is VI underrated?

[gottacook]

TUC was my second-best Trek experience in the theater (after TWoK). A great score (by Cliff Eidelman) with a great beginning - how refreshing to start with something in unison, and have it grow from there - very uncommon in a movie. Another positive was the lack of a shout-out to any of the previous Trek title music, which would have been quite out of place.

I could do without the stupid digital clock and elements of Valeris' haircut (evidently chosen by Kim C.). The rest, I quite enjoyed.

Anyone complaining about the Uhura/books scene would, I suppose, also complain about the Macintosh scene in TVH. Scotty doesn't know what a mouse is (even though a minute later he's an incredibly fast touch-typist)? To me this isn't much different from Uhura relying on books (rather than using a computer translation resource that presumably she'd know how to use if she herself wasn't fluent) - both scenes are in the service of humor, which TUC surely needed. To state the bleedin' obvious: With better translation we'd have no "We is condemning food," "things and supplies," etc.; I loved that stuff and so did the theatrical audience.

[jayrath]

It's my favorite. Let me also add that visually it has aged the best -- after TMP, it had the best art direction. WoK and the rest are a little too disco-funky.

[SchwEnt]

I don't think it's underrated. It was well-received went it came out and is still highly regarded. When and how was it underrated?

I will say this (and I share this opinion) after the years have passed, perhaps the flaws and problems are more noticable.

TUC was a hit with fans, maybe even moreso coming off of TFF. It was a fine farewell to TOS. Maybe we were too willing to overlook the problems at the time, too willing to let the flaws go unmentioned.

But decades later, as much as I like TUC, yeah... there are things that bother me now that really didn't at the time.

[AggieJohn]

I would not say under rated at all. Its my second favorite TOS movie behind STII.

I totally disagree with statements that Kirk was racist in STVI. The Klingon's killed his son, said there would be no peace till he was dead. They were his mortal enemy who had attempted to kill him on numerous occasions. So the fact that he does not like them is not a racist statement.

Some of the others did look bad. McCoy did look a little stupid as a doctor but not a lot and he had been drinking. Ohura not being able to speak Klingon was odd. I know its an odd statement but Spock is justified in his actions, he does hurt Valeris a little but to stop a interstellar war that might kill millions. I mean the needs of the many...?

[AllStarEntprise]

The Uhura book scene and not being able to speak Klingon fluently was Stephen Meyer's idea. Nichelle Nichols brought up it didn't make sense for the Klingons to be the Feds number 1 enemy and she the communications officer not be able communicate with them. Meyers said the scene was funnier the way he shot it so he left it in there.

I don't mind the Spock forced mind meld scene since he's doing it on another Vulcan who is most likely trained in resisting mental attacks. Although Meyers had said recently he regrets shooting it the way he did. With water boarding and torture used by the US government on it's prisoners in recent years

[Satyrquaze]

gottacook wrote:

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Anyone complaining about the Uhura/books scene would, I suppose, also complain about the Macintosh scene in TVH. Scotty doesn't know what a mouse is (even though a minute later he's an incredibly fast touch-typist)? To me this isn't much different from Uhura relying on books (rather than using a computer translation resource that presumably she'd know how to use if she herself wasn't fluent) - both scenes are in the service of humor, which TUC surely needed. To state the bleedin' obvious: With better translation we'd have no "We is condemning food," "things and supplies," etc.; I loved that stuff and so did the theatrical audience.

The book scene was pretty dang funny, but I have to admit, I see Nichols' side of it, the Macintosh scene doesn't by default make Scotty look like an idiot. The translation scene in VI does makes everyone involved look rather foolish at best.

[gottacook]

Scaryquaze wrote:

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...the Macintosh scene doesn't by default make Scotty look like an idiot. The translation scene in VI does makes everyone involved look rather foolish at best.

Yes, but that's not the distinction I was trying to make. Both the Scotty scene in TVH and the Uhura scene in TUC make us wonder what the character is supposed to already know (or not know) when confronted with a novel situation, such as working a first-generation Macintosh or conversing in Klingon. But the risk of taking the audience out of the story to wonder about this is balanced by the humor of the situation, so it's worth it.

(Also, the crew in the TUC scene didn't look that foolish by comparison to Scotty walking into a bulkhead in the previous movie, and the TUC scene was a lot funnier to boot.)

[Galileo7]

BillJ wrote:

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The Undiscovered Country is one of my favorite Trek films. A fitting send-off for the TOS gang.

Agree.

KingDaniel wrote:

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On the contrary, I think STVI is overrated. Why are the characters treated so badly? Kirk's suddenly a racist, McCoy is incompetent (no idea about Klingon anatomy?), Uhura can't speak Klingon (the communications officer doesn't know the language of the Federation's main rival?) and Spock mind rapes a screaming Valaris on the bridge while everyone just sits and watches.

And the less said about that Shakespeare-obsessed Chang, the better.

It could have been so much better with some rewrites.

All valid points regarding the characters in TUC.

[KennyB]

I agree with most TUC is second ONLY to TWOK to me. The most successful........TVH has always been my least favorite. Too much camp for me in that one.

[Gary Mitchell]

About the only thing that I didn't like about TUC was the scene where everybody ends up in the kitchen.

[Angry Fanboy]

gottacook wrote:

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Anyone complaining about the Uhura/books scene would, I suppose, also complain about the Macintosh scene in TVH. Scotty doesn't know what a mouse is (even though a minute later he's an incredibly fast touch-typist)? To me this isn't much different from Uhura relying on books (rather than using a computer translation resource that presumably she'd know how to use if she herself wasn't fluent) - both scenes are in the service of humor, which TUC surely needed. To state the bleedin' obvious: With better translation we'd have no "We is condemning food," "things and supplies," etc.; I loved that stuff and so did the theatrical audience.

This.

[NewHorizon]

I enjoyed TUC, however it is far from my favorite.

A lot of the time, the movie felt forced...with too many scenes that were 'cute' and contrived to give the characters something to do.

Trek 6 never fully recovered from the mis-step of Trek 5. The characters somehow felt less real. It felt like, ok...this is a Trek movie so we have to hit this point, this point and this point.

Fan service.

I'm just not into that.

[AggieJohn]

I see your point but in a way there was a turning point in the story of the TOS characters in the movies but it was not in STVI it was much earlier and I hate to say it but in some ways this is Nimoy's fault.

Hear me out, I love the guy and I am glad they brought him back in STIII. But I get the impression that STII was introducing the idea that the old crew was making way for a younger crew or as Kirk put it "galavanting about the galaxy is a game for the young." Now the movie proved that he was not that old, but in later movies they might have passed the torch slowly. Spock had already did that with Saavik essentially. We would have likely seen that with other characters in future movies.

NOW Spock came back and in the process the Enterprise is destroyed and in a way the movies just seem to try to give the crew the proper send off. STIV was a possible ending but the pushed their luck with STV and failed so they tried for one big send off with STVI. It does a great job But as mentioned before there about ending the story not really about growing the characters. There is a strong need to put a bow on the saga. It works in the immediate but as one reflects on it the sadness of what might have been sets in.

[barnaclelapse]

As it's my favorite Trek film, and as not everyone seems to share that opinion, I'd say it's extremely underrated.

[Amasov]

It sort of came to my attention more recently, I guess. I'm in a sci-fi club here in town, but we mostly talk about Trek. In our discussions of the films, it seems that while everyone agrees the stronger of the films are the even-numbered ones, VI always seems to rank on the lower end. A lot of my friends there feel it's a weaker film when compared to the rest. And even when I discuss Trek films with other people, VI NEVER seems to come up as a favorite of anyone's or is ever really highly-regarded.

Maybe it's just me. I like the film just fine.